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K-12 public school carry

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  • buckwheat
    started a topic K-12 public school carry

    K-12 public school carry

    Is it lawful to conceal carry inside a K thru 12 school if you are legal to carry a firearm.

  • Jim Macklin
    replied
    Laws are not written straight forward... You may have to read paragraph one, skip down the page 5 paragraphs and then read certain sections in an entirely other laws to find exceptions.

    You may need to instruct your lawyer on the convoluted law. That's why a good lawyer, a specialist can cost $1,000 an hour and up with a 10 hour minumum.

    Leave a comment:


  • fixxer
    replied
    Originally posted by Jim Macklin View Post



    Title 18 922 (q) as shown above provides a federal exception if you have a state issue license. Note the KSASG opinion.

    What is not covered is lawful self-defense within a school zone. Only police officers and perhaps school employees are allowed to actually pull the trigger.

    All this is covered and amended by HR 38. which passed the House over a year ago and will die in the Senate unless the Senate passes it before January 1, 2019.
    Good job Jim,
    I did not see that addendum. Last I knew, the KSAG was unclear.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jim Macklin
    replied
    Originally posted by fixxer View Post
    This pertains to carrying inside a building so the answer is no. Not inside at all (Federally, since 1990). If you get picked up and are lucky enough for any state; even Kansas, to drop charges, it will become a federal matter. And short of a Presidential pardon, a conviction will screw you for life.

    As per 18 U.S.C. § 921:

    "A conviction under the GFSZA will cause an individual to become a "prohibited person" under the Gun Control Act of 1968. It is unlawful for a "prohibited person" to own, purchase, or possess "firearms" as defined by US federal law."
    18 USC 921 are definitions...

    Read the KS AG opinion and the answer is yes.
    item 25 & 26

    (25)  The term “school zone” means--
    (A)  in, or on the grounds of, a public, parochial or private school;  or


    (B)  within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds of a public, parochial or private school.


    (26)  The term “school” means a school which provides elementary or secondary education, as determined under State law.
    Title 18 922 (q) as shown above provides a federal exception if you have a state issue license. Note the KSASG opinion.

    What is not covered is lawful self-defense within a school zone. Only police officers and perhaps school employees are allowed to actually pull the trigger.

    All this is covered and amended by HR 38. which passed the House over a year ago and will die in the Senate unless the Senate passes it before January 1, 2019.

    Leave a comment:


  • fixxer
    replied
    This partains to carrying inside a building so the answer is no. Not inside at all (Federally, since 1990). If you get picked up and are lucky enough for any state; even Kansas, to drop charges, it will become a federal matter. And short of a Presidential pardon, a conviction will screw you for life.

    As per 18 U.S.C. § 921:

    "A conviction under the GFSZA will cause an individual to become a "prohibited person" under the Gun Control Act of 1968. It is unlawful for a "prohibited person" to own, purchase, or possess "firearms" as defined by US federal law."
    Last edited by fixxer; 11-19-2018, 00:02.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jim Macklin
    replied
    Currently, in Kansas, the school building must be posted with the legal "no gun sign." The Federal GFSZ law, title 18.922(q) provides an exception is you have a license issued by the state where the school is located. Currently there is no reciprocity on this.
    18 U.S. Code § 922 - Unlawful acts

    (a) It shall be unlawful— (1) for any person


    {Note that the first version of the Federal Gun Free School Zone law was ruled unconstitutional by SCOTUS citing several reasons. Primary because the federal governemnt has/had no legal authority over local schools. Congress just wrote and claimed the power and it hasn't been back to SCOTUS since.}


    (q)
    (1) The Congress finds and declares that— (A) crime, particularly crime involving drugs and guns, is a pervasive, nationwide problem;

    (B) crime at the local level is exacerbated by the interstate movement of drugs, guns, and criminal gangs;

    (C) firearms and ammunition move easily in interstate commerce and have been found in increasing numbers in and around schools, as documented in numerous hearings in both the Committee on the Judiciary [3] the House of Representatives and the Committee on the Judiciary of the Senate;

    (D) in fact, even before the sale of a firearm, the gun, its component parts, ammunition, and the raw materials from which they are made have considerably moved in interstate commerce;

    (E) while criminals freely move from State to State, ordinary citizens and foreign visitors may fear to travel to or through certain parts of the country due to concern about violent crime and gun violence, and parents may decline to send their children to school for the same reason;

    (F) the occurrence of violent crime in school zones has resulted in a decline in the quality of education in our country;

    (G) this decline in the quality of education has an adverse impact on interstate commerce and the foreign commerce of the United States;

    (H) States, localities, and school systems find it almost impossible to handle gun-related crime by themselves—even States, localities, and school systems that have made strong efforts to prevent, detect, and punish gun-related crime find their efforts unavailing due in part to the failure or inability of other States or localities to take strong measures; and

    (I) the Congress has the power, under the interstate commerce clause and other provisions of the Constitution, to enact measures to ensure the integrity and safety of the Nation’s schools by enactment of this subsection.



    (2) (A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.

    (B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm— (i) on private property not part of school grounds;

    (ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;

    (iii) that is— (I) not loaded; and

    (II) in a locked container, or a locked firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle;


    (iv) by an individual for use in a program approved by a school in the school zone;

    (v) by an individual in accordance with a contract entered into between a school in the school zone and the individual or an employer of the individual;

    (vi) by a law enforcement officer acting in his or her official capacity; or

    (vii) that is unloaded and is possessed by an individual while traversing school premises for the purpose of gaining access to public or private lands open to hunting, if the entry on school premises is authorized by school authorities.




    (3) (A) Except as provided in subparagraph (B), it shall be unlawful for any person, knowingly or with reckless disregard for the safety of another, to discharge or attempt to discharge a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the person knows is a school zone.

    (B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the discharge of a firearm— (i) on private property not part of school grounds;

    (ii) as part of a program approved by a school in the school zone, by an individual who is participating in the program;

    (iii) by an individual in accordance with a contract entered into between a school in a school zone and the individual or an employer of the individual; or

    (iv) by a law enforcement officer acting in his or her official capacity.




    (4) Nothing in this subsection shall be construed as preempting or preventing a State or local government from enacting a statute establishing gun free school zones as provided in this subsection.
    https://ag.ks.gov/docs/default-sourc...vrsn=3cfd91a_8

    Under current state law, a license is not required to lawfully carry a concealed handgun.1 It is not a crime for a person to carry a concealed handgun on school property,2 even if that person does not possess a valid concealed carry license, so long as that person is at least 21 years old and not prohibited from possessing a firearm under state or federal law.3
    Generally, concealed carry is not permitted inside any public K-12 school building if the building is posted with signage in accordance with K.S.A. 2015 Supp. 75-7c10.4 Other laws generally requiring public buildings to allow concealed carry do not apply to public school district buildings.5
    Last edited by Jim Macklin; 11-18-2018, 15:21.

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