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"Hero Time Is Gone"

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  • "Hero Time Is Gone"

    It seems you do the right thing and someone somewhere will be there to slap you down for it

    "Two Mirimar SWAT officers suspended for heading into Parkland Massacre"

    Sad times we live in

    As has been said so many times, "You are on your own", so plan accordingly

    http://www.activeresponsetraining.ne...chool-shooting




    Last edited by ricco; 03-11-2018, 23:59.
    "I suppose it's tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail...." ~Abraham Maslow~

    "Skill makes you harder to kill" ~ Unknown

  • #2
    Ain't that something? It makes me wonder what the world is coming to.
    Taceant colloquia. Effugiat risus. Hic locus est ubi mors gaudet succurrere vitae.
    The Pale Horse available on Amazon for your digital reader.

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    • #3
      I'm not saying I agree with it or that I don't but I believe there was/is a policy in place that officers may respond bit they are required to first check-in/notify their CoC.

      If there is such a policy maybe it should be reevaluated.
      Last edited by mjkeat; 03-12-2018, 15:52.
      Failure is an opportunity to learn.

      Comment


      • #4
        This is another half-truth.

        You have to let someone in charge know you're going to be involved AND let them tell you where to help or else you're going to either end up dead or your're going to end up having to kill another good guy to keep yourself alive.

        This isn't an incipient fire where everything smoking can be hosed from any angle and we can all walk out and have a beer, then pat each other on the backs for helping.

        What would any normal; rational responder, do if they pie sliced a crowded classroom and found another armed adult standing in the room wearing civilian clothes? Is there something like a "good guy" RADAR that the other good guys are supposed to show up with? If there is, I've never seen one. A little badge; even IF you've got one prominently displayed (doubtful), isn't going to be very useful to a Coroner.

        Even if the responding cops were put on notice that other "good guys" were on the scene; what then? Now the responding LEOs not only have to look for an active shooter; they have to do it in the midst of clearing a large facility while watching out for other potential armed "good guys". All this with absolutely no idea of how well and how differently trained this new "good guy" is. They have absolutely no idea where these other "good guys" are because no one in charge was able to tell them.

        You might as well just let everyone throw dice in the parking lot if you don't have an organizational hierarchy and a plan that's followed.

        A formal plan any one person decides to stray from, is not a plan. You've just punted another huge advantage straight to the "bad guys". "I HOPE the other cops realize I'm a good guy here to help." "Hope" is not a plan. Hope is the opposite of a plan. Hope is why lotteries are a profitable venture for the organizers. The organizers don't hope, but the players all do.

        The bottom line is that someone(s) with great-looking credentials elected to put themselves in charge of a situation that someone else was coordinating and they were quite lucky to not have been responsible for the death of either themselves or responding LEOs on top of collateral body counts in the school.

        Was that heroic? Maybe from 1 perspective. It completely screwed everyone else from all other perspective angles.

        At least that's my thoughts.
        For the Angel of Death spread his wings on the blast,
        And breathed in the face of the foe as he passed;
        And the eyes of the sleepers waxed deadly and chill,
        And their hearts but once heaved, and for ever grew still!
        -Lord Byron (=5 lines)

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        • #5
          fixxer, that is something that hadn't thought of. Good point.
          Taceant colloquia. Effugiat risus. Hic locus est ubi mors gaudet succurrere vitae.
          The Pale Horse available on Amazon for your digital reader.

          Comment


          • #6
            Outstanding Fixxer, experience based knowledge to answer the question, not a tabloid headline and a half azz guess.
            Originally posted by kscardsfan
            Grain of salt hell, I'm taking it with a salt block from the feed store. Thats a big bunch of crap there.
            Originally posted by zap
            Winning a political debate on this forum is like winning the special Olympics....you would need to be a retard to enter it.

            Comment


            • #7
              It's just something to think about if you think being a "helper" is indeed helping.Not even to mention the ensuing carnage.

              Hell hath no fury like the blow back we will all experience the first time a "helper" gets in a shoot out with the good guys or even just does what they showed up to do and invariably doesn't work out the way they had planned in their heads.

              It will be the absolute last hammer strike the anti's need to seal the deal with gun control for people trying to be "heros". LEO's have been prohibited from going to other jurisdictions and playing hero in their off time for as long as most of us have been alive for these reasons.

              Sure they want to help. We all do. But are we helping if we show up with another gun to go bad guy hunting? Permits to carry for civilians and off-duty cops are not; and will never-ever be, hunting tags for bad guys. I doesn't matter if you are Chuck Norris; trained by SWAT while being blessed by the Pope. This is exactly why I don't subscribe to the active shooter response BS of purposefully inserting yourself into the situation. We have a right to fight our way out of danger, not the other way around.

              If you're a parent or close to any of these victims, you are unlikely to be able to arrive and respond any sooner than the responders. If you have the misfortune of being in the wrong place at the right time; you have the right to fight your way out of danger and perhaps help bystanders in the process but not more. You don't get to play the staring role in a remake of Die-Hard or Taken. That only works out on television scripts.

              Unfortunately this is misunderstood by those with a hero complex and the consequences can be mortal. In fact, I predict it WILL be mortal eventually. It's just a matter of time before it happens. There just seems to be an too much overabundance of click-bait internet perpetuating to overcome the inevitability of this from occurring.
              Last edited by fixxer; 03-13-2018, 17:28.
              For the Angel of Death spread his wings on the blast,
              And breathed in the face of the foe as he passed;
              And the eyes of the sleepers waxed deadly and chill,
              And their hearts but once heaved, and for ever grew still!
              -Lord Byron (=5 lines)

              Comment


              • #8
                Okay, I'll take the blame for this one

                I shouldn't have written the first sentence of my post as it threw off what I wanted to convey, it's just that I hate to miss an opportunity for a dig at the White Knights, ya know, no good deed goes unpunished and all like that

                So anyway, I couldn't give a rat's furry butt crack about police policy for active shooter events because regardless of what that policy is people are still going to die

                This article, however you want to take it is proof and that's the point

                And the point was supposed to be, YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN, YOU ARE THE FIRST RESPONDER

                It makes no difference if you are armed or in NPE the only person you can count on to save you, is you

                So plan, train and practice accordingly
                "I suppose it's tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail...." ~Abraham Maslow~

                "Skill makes you harder to kill" ~ Unknown

                Comment


                • #9
                  There are certainly times to "stay out of the way".

                  Crazy thing about THIS event though was that the "responding LEO's" were the ones holding the dice game in the parking lot, as that's about as far as their "response" went, under orders from higher authority no less.

                  There wasn't anyone to "stay out of the way" OF attempting to stop the shooter. Those 2 now former SWAT officers were the only "responding" force, Coward County was setting up a campfire in the parking lot for a Community Sing.
                  My standing offer for people's "old" MRE's, $1 each for dark brown bags. $12/case $2 each for the sand tan bags (newer). $24/case
                  MAYBE, if they are 2010 and newer, I give you $2.50 each....... generosity.50 cents each for loose heaters. Where's those highlight video links mjkeat???????

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ricco View Post
                    Okay, I'll take the blame for this one

                    I shouldn't have written the first sentence of my post as it threw off what I wanted to convey, it's just that I hate to miss an opportunity for a dig at the White Knights, ya know, no good deed goes unpunished and all like that

                    So anyway, I couldn't give a rat's furry butt crack about police policy for active shooter events because regardless of what that policy is people are still going to die

                    This article, however you want to take it is proof and that's the point

                    And the point was supposed to be, YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN, YOU ARE THE FIRST RESPONDER

                    It makes no difference if you are armed or in NPE the only person you can count on to save you, is you

                    So plan, train and practice accordingly
                    ricco, I think we all or most all of us already knew that, and that is why we CCH. In other words, you are preaching to the choir, my friend. I think your OP might better be posted somewhere like The Huffington Post or some other left-wing outlet of mislead non-thinkers.
                    http://youtu.be/ei8OK4WdoW0
                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4CuH...e=channel_page
                    http://www.stoppingpower.net/comment...tervention.asp
                    http://youtu.be/wXwPtP-KDNk
                    https://youtu.be/Iy71umadb6k

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                    • #11
                      I have had active shooter training where I work for what it's worth. Cops will shoot you if they see a gun in the hands of a decidedly non-cop. Your options are to secure your immediate area (office, building wing, hall, etc) and hunker down till the cops show up and make sure your gun is secured (holstered) before they do. You only engage if the shooter is approaching your area. You do NOT chase him down! Which will be damn hard to do when you hear the gunshots and screams of your co-workers when they die. There are no easy answers or solutions here. Most office/school buildings of any kind are very soft targets. It sucks but until the powers that be decide to take seriously the world we live in we live in peril....
                      I'm probably on the list. Don't laugh. So are you!
                      Multi-Tasking is great until you actually have to accomplish something.
                      I quit playing by other peoples rules. They are not written with my best interests in mind.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Goodtime Charlie View Post

                        ricco, I think we all or most all of us already knew that, and that is why we CCH. In other words, you are preaching to the choir, my friend. I think your OP might better be posted somewhere like The Huffington Post or some other left-wing outlet of mislead non-thinkers.
                        Some do but I tend to think it is probably the minority of even those who carry a gun based on the way most approach preparedness to being their own first responder. In my experiences there seems to be a huge gap between actual ability and perceived ability. I don't believe it's arrogance that drives this I feel it's simply a case of they don't know what they don't know.

                        Failure is an opportunity to learn.

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