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"Springs don't wear from sitting static"

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  • "Springs don't wear from sitting static"

    Maybe one of the people who keeps telling me this can explain the following:

    I finally remembered to order 2 new Browning Auto-5 recoil springs for my Light 12 and my Remington 11R.

    Browning states that if the spring when removed from the gun is relaxed, it's full relaxed length must be 9 1/4 inches or more.
    Shorter than 9 1/4" it needs replaced.

    The Auto-5's spring was last replaced new around 2005 and has seen some 3-4,000 rounds. Call it 13 yrs old.

    The Model 11R's spring was last replaced around 1990 (as was the previous Auto-5 spring) and since then has probably fired 50 shells maximum. It has sat in a closet assembled in a case. 28 yrs.

    The springs, installed in the assembled gun, at at a preload compressed length of about 5 1/2 inches.

    At full compression stroke they are only 2 5/8 inches long, and ALMOST at full coil bind.

    The brand new springs measure 9 3/8 inches long.

    The Model 11's spring, which should not have worn because it has sat not cycled, measured 8 1/2 inches long. 3/4 inch below minimum allowed length, a full inch below new.

    The Auto-5's spring, was about 1/16th inch LONGER than the 11R's spring, call it 8 9/16" long, having been assembled half as long and cycled almost to coil bind 8 times as much.
    Gone. Good riddance.
    Watch the **** storm continue without me.

  • #2
    I had always heard that springs wore from expansion and contraction. Yet the experience of your Remington would seem to say otherwise. Interesting.

    And you're certain that the Remmy's spring was 9 1/4" long when it was installed? (8 1/2 + 3/4 = 9 1/4 if I did my addition right)
    Taceant colloquia. Effugiat risus. Hic locus est ubi mors gaudet succurrere vitae.
    The Pale Horse available on Amazon for your digital reader.

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    • #3
      This being not the first time I have replaced these springs, the springs, when new, are over 9 1/4, they have always been between 9 3/8 and 9 1/2 inches long when received new.
      Ever since the gunsmith when I had the Remmy worked on for a worn sear back in the 80's and was told of the replacement need, I have measured them every decade or so, and when new.
      This is just the first time I've ever recorded what they were.

      They have always been factory Browning springs I have used, no aftermarkets.

      A member on another board has a WWII American Browning Auto-5 that, until a year ago, had the original spring in it, and like any good shotgun, it has seen a lifetime of use.

      IIRC the recoil spring was about 6 1/2 inches in his (he measured after I told him this) and he replaced it. That gun had to kick like a mad mule.
      Gone. Good riddance.
      Watch the **** storm continue without me.

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      • #4
        I've had occasions when utility shotguns have been sitting around/hung up with loaded magazines for years--the longest, maybe five years--and they have always functioned properly. But, when they do get taken apart for a cleaning after all that time, when I pull the magazine spring out, I'll give it a gentle tug to stretch it, maybe lengthening it a couple inches or so. Lot cheaper than buying a new one.

        Come to think on it, it's about time for the 1100 and semi-retired 870 to be shot empty, cleaned, reloaded, and put up for contingencies. Something fun to do on my days off this week, maybe. Ace2
        Sometimes the term 'Idiot' is a description and not an insult.

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        • #5
          When the aforementioned 11R had a worn sear issue, it doubled. Twice. It wouldn't do it if I had a hard pull on the trigger, but if I was coming off it just right on the reset, it would drop or miss the hammer

          It would have tripled (hell, it would have likely run all 5) had the 1920's magazine spring also been worth a damn, as it was round #3 only got half-way out of the magazine before the shell lifter heaved and jammed things up tight.

          The mag spring went too.

          An 1100 probably cycles too slow to outrun a tired magazine spring.
          Gone. Good riddance.
          Watch the **** storm continue without me.

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          • #6
            Then there are all the anecdotes of pistol mags being loaded for months/years/decades, and working just fine. I can think of a couple with .22 mags, though, where it went the other way; those were little five- or seven-rounders, though. I've found 1022 mags I'd forgotten about, several years loaded, that worked OK. Not sure I'd trust my life to long-compressed springs, though (says the guy who has two shotguns that haven't been fired in years--but that's different). Ace2
            Sometimes the term 'Idiot' is a description and not an insult.

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            • #7
              There are more variables than just oscillation that can cause spring failure. Like the metallurgy of the spring, going past its yield strength, thermal. imo

              Say you have a 6 round magazine, but you always try to shove a 7 round in magazine that is enclosed in the body of mag and a fully compressed spring. You would have now introduced shear force, the then the material quality. Not static, but inadvertently human error.
              Last edited by F = ma; 06-11-2018, 15:56.
              "Boards!!! Do not hit back!!" Bruce Lee
              "Luck favors the prepared"
              "You think I'm a hero? I am not a hero. And if you're smart, that scares you. Because I have nothing to lose. I mean to beat you to death, and drink your blood from a boot." Jack Reacher

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              • #8
                What we have here are 2 essentially identical springs, that were installed into 2 essentially identical guns, for the identical purpose.

                One sat for almost 30 years compressed to 60% of it's relaxed length.

                The other was compressed to 60% of it's relaxed length, for half the time length, and cycled heavily to nearly it's compression limit, and both "wore" the same.

                Meanwhile people continue to insist that that the un-cycled spring in the Model 11R "would suffer no wear" because "only cyclic use wears springs", a statement which is obviously incorrect.
                Gone. Good riddance.
                Watch the **** storm continue without me.

                Comment


                • #9
                  You know how I deal with this issue? I don't give a **** and do whatever. Up until recently I shot so much the wife complained about the money In was spending on ammunition. I'll admit it was on the level of silly.

                  When I was in the Army I shot even more. We shot so much many of us began to dred it. Kind of like that smoking hot nemph girl who taught you a thing or two that you dated back in the day who you slept with so much it got boring regardless of how crazy your sex life was.

                  Never had an issue with springs. Doesn't even cross my mind. Not even worth the time and effort to consider it. To many more important things to focus on. Those who talk about it are generally the ones who should be spending the time on other things.

                  But then again, #thepewpew rules supreme.
                  Last edited by mjkeat; 06-11-2018, 19:46.
                  Failure is an opportunity to learn.

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                  • #10
                    Or those who talk about it, get paid massive amount of money. Lol
                    "Boards!!! Do not hit back!!" Bruce Lee
                    "Luck favors the prepared"
                    "You think I'm a hero? I am not a hero. And if you're smart, that scares you. Because I have nothing to lose. I mean to beat you to death, and drink your blood from a boot." Jack Reacher

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by F = ma View Post
                      Or those who talk about it, get paid massive amount of money. Lol
                      So who's signing the checks for dudes to sit around ignoring important things to talk about something that really doesn't matter on ksccw?
                      Failure is an opportunity to learn.

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                      • #12
                        What is important for you, may not be the same for other people. Failure is opportunity to learn, it has everything to do with ksccw. Especially, since it is equipment. Imo
                        "Boards!!! Do not hit back!!" Bruce Lee
                        "Luck favors the prepared"
                        "You think I'm a hero? I am not a hero. And if you're smart, that scares you. Because I have nothing to lose. I mean to beat you to death, and drink your blood from a boot." Jack Reacher

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Ace View Post
                          Then there are all the anecdotes of pistol mags being loaded for months/years/decades, and working just fine. I can think of a couple with .22 mags, though, where it went the other way; those were little five- or seven-rounders, though. I've found 1022 mags I'd forgotten about, several years loaded, that worked OK. Not sure I'd trust my life to long-compressed springs, though (says the guy who has two shotguns that haven't been fired in years--but that's different). Ace2
                          The factory mag in my PT92AFS has been loaded since December 1999, and still functioned as it should when I sold the gun last fall.
                          01/06 FFL $15 transfers and guns near wholesale


                          Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties. And not to Democrats alone do I make this appeal, but to all who love these great and true principles~ Abe Lincoln

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                          • #14
                            Yep. I had four loaded Ruger P89 mags that had been stuck in the drawer and forgotten, one in the gun, when we moved here in '99. About 2010-11, decided to take it to the ORF quals and try it out (with another pistol in case there were problems); they all worked fine--though my skill with the SA/DA action had eroded badly. I tried them all a few times to see if any problems popped up; none did, they still worked good, and now they're back in the drawer with the loaded gun. Will probably do it all again one of these days, and expect the same result.
                            Then again, it is a Ruger. Ace2
                            Sometimes the term 'Idiot' is a description and not an insult.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by F = ma View Post
                              What is important for you, may not be the same for other people. Failure is opportunity to learn, it has everything to do with ksccw. Especially, since it is equipment. Imo
                              There are people that in 2018 that don't integrate lateral movement into the presentation of the gun. Still in to this day some still think heel /toe toe/heel is an acceptable method of movement. I could go on. The critical skills go ignored but hey we rehashed the spring debate.
                              Failure is an opportunity to learn.

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