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ORF Quals today

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  • #16
    Yeah, if Ace had followed your training he would have survived his career to hang out here and putz around. Oh ya........
    Originally posted by kscardsfan
    Grain of salt hell, I'm taking it with a salt block from the feed store. Thats a big bunch of crap there.




    QUOTE=mjkeat;n1101496]****ing stupid.[/QUOTE]

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Not so big Tom View Post
      Yeah, if Ace had followed your training he would have survived his career to hang out here and putz around. Oh ya........
      Agreed and when you think about it, it is kind of amazing that any of us get by...........
      The Lion Does Not Turn Around When the Small Dog Barks

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      • #18
        Originally posted by mjkeat View Post

        That's unfortunate.

        So you'll know in case someone brings it up, Quals are an evaluation tool. Eval tools are typically in place to make sure the individual not only learned the skill(s) taught but has developed them appropriately and can apply them in context. First there must be context.

        I should have mentioned the Book Share thread I started. The book is headed to dmog but you can get in on it if you'd like. Just go to the thread and post that you'd like to get in line.


        Originally posted by mjkeat View Post

        Yet they create a dangerous false sense of security and competence in the individual, chain of command, and public.

        Originally posted by Not so big Tom View Post
        Yeah, if Ace had followed your training he would have survived his career to hang out here and putz around. Oh ya........

        Originally posted by Chuck R. View Post

        Agreed and when you think about it, it is kind of amazing that any of us get by...........
        Are you two saying you disagree with what I've shared? If so let's discuss it. I included my posts for convenience.
        Failure is an opportunity to learn.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by mjkeat View Post











          Are you two saying you disagree with what I've shared? If so let's discuss it. I included my posts for convenience.
          Discuss.......on KSCCW.........yeah right.........funny stuff

          How are they going to discuss when haven't even figured out the questions

          Much easier to just piss all over everything of any worth, that's what makes 'em feel good about themselves
          "I suppose it's tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail...." ~Abraham Maslow~

          "Skill makes you harder to kill" ~ Unknown

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          • #20
            Originally posted by ricco View Post

            Discuss.......on KSCCW.........yeah right.........funny stuff

            How are they going to discuss when haven't even figured out the questions

            Much easier to just piss all over everything of any worth, that's what makes 'em feel good about themselves
            Maybe so but I want to always extend the invitation. Discussion is the way to truth.
            Failure is an opportunity to learn.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by mjkeat View Post

              Maybe so but I want to always extend the invitation. Discussion is the way to truth.
              I think that is a good thing, we will see if it happens
              "I suppose it's tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail...." ~Abraham Maslow~

              "Skill makes you harder to kill" ~ Unknown

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by ricco View Post

                I think that is a good thing, we will see if it happens
                I really hope it does.

                Failure is an opportunity to learn.

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                • #23
                  Should "Qual's" be done away with?

                  Do they serve a valid purpose?

                  If they do serve a useful purpose should they be changed to reflect a more realistic standard?

                  If they are done away with how is competency to be judged?

                  "I suppose it's tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail...." ~Abraham Maslow~

                  "Skill makes you harder to kill" ~ Unknown

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by ricco View Post
                    Should "Qual's" be done away with?

                    Do they serve a valid purpose?

                    If they do serve a useful purpose should they be changed to reflect a more realistic standard?

                    If they are done away with how is competency to be judged?
                    Education is key. It is without argument that quals are typically void of context and create a false sense of security both of which are dangerous. Add this to the opinion that they don't serve any practical/real world purpose and any possible benefit is significantly outweighed.

                    I shared the story Pincus shared with the class about the opportunity he had to change up an agency's training and subsequent qual program. Scores went down but real world hit % went up. Officer and citizen safety improved.

                    Quals don't judge competency in anything but that very specific course of fire. I can share stories from my Infantry days if needed.
                    Failure is an opportunity to learn.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      There are many paths to the goal line. Why is any one that scores wrong?
                      Originally posted by kscardsfan
                      Grain of salt hell, I'm taking it with a salt block from the feed store. Thats a big bunch of crap there.




                      QUOTE=mjkeat;n1101496]****ing stupid.[/QUOTE]

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Not so big Tom View Post
                        There are many paths to the goal line. Why is any one that scores wrong?
                        Great question. As we've discussed before there is good, better, and most efficient. If I'm choosing gear, techniques, and methods which we have 100% control of as a civilian why not choose the most efficient of those?

                        Participating in fight focused type training helps us to understand the importance of such things. The proverbial cream rises to the top when things are really put to the test.

                        If our training lacks context there's really no way to pass judgment. Working, effective, etc. isn't as reliable. Something may have worked but that doesn't mean it'll work again or that it was the best way. Efficiently completing the task at hand means you did so in less and with less effort and energy. In the context of self defense it means the BG had less time to hurt you and you chose a methodology and techniques that were easier or more intuitive. Quick explanation.

                        I should add, if you're paying someone to educate you shouldn't they be teaching you the most efficient techniques rather than stuff that just works? If I'm paying I want what works the best.

                        We also need to remember, over the broadest range of likely circumstances.
                        Last edited by mjkeat; 04-16-2019, 23:55.
                        Failure is an opportunity to learn.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          You did not answer why another path is wrong.
                          Originally posted by kscardsfan
                          Grain of salt hell, I'm taking it with a salt block from the feed store. Thats a big bunch of crap there.




                          QUOTE=mjkeat;n1101496]****ing stupid.[/QUOTE]

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Not so big Tom View Post
                            You did not answer why another path is wrong.
                            Who said any certain path is necessarily wrong? Like I've mentioned many times before; good, better, most efficient. Also, as I've recommended quite a few times in the past, do a YouTube Effective vs. Efficient. We've discussed it here on a couple occasions as well.
                            Failure is an opportunity to learn.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Most efficient for who? Iíve a kid half my age training me at work that does not get a left handed guy with twice his years twisting bolts has a different way.
                              Last edited by Not so big Tom; 04-17-2019, 01:31.
                              Originally posted by kscardsfan
                              Grain of salt hell, I'm taking it with a salt block from the feed store. Thats a big bunch of crap there.




                              QUOTE=mjkeat;n1101496]****ing stupid.[/QUOTE]

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Not so big Tom View Post
                                Most efficient for who? I’ve a kid half my age training me at work that does not get a left handed guy with twice his years twisting bolts has a different way.
                                Within the same or similar context, CCW for us, and barring significant handicap or injury there is no "for who." How does you body and mind work that's significantly different than how mine works?

                                I'm less concerned about "my way" as my focus is on the best way.

                                There's a flaw in thinking "time in service" "time doing something" necessarily means mastery or better/best. How long has DPMS been making AR15s? A long damn time but they're still junk in comparison to BCM who is a relative new kid on the block.
                                Last edited by mjkeat; 04-17-2019, 01:58.
                                Failure is an opportunity to learn.

                                Comment

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