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  • Range Time

    Now that we've got this new and greatly improved forum I'd like to see us make maximum use of it. Now that many/most of us have our CCW, our next responsibility is to maintain our ability to be effective with what we carry. I'd like to see us establish an extremely informal "Kansas CCW Marksmanship League".

    The main purpose of such a league would be to give each of us an excuse to get to the range on a regular basis, so that if the undesireable situation should happen, we won't miss dinner that night.

    Here's a rough format:

    Go to the range.
    Shoot whatever targets you want.
    Post your scores, target information, distance, weapon and ammo;

    so that we can all keep in practice and learn from each other.

    Thoughts? I hope to go shooting this weekend, and I'll post mine just to give it a start.

    Bob
    Robert J. McElwain


    "The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." ~Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 (C.J.Boyd, Ed., 1950)

    "He who is not angry when there is just cause for anger is immoral."
    St. Thomas Aquinas

    One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors.

  • #2
    Sounds like a good idea to me, count me in.
    \"Chance favores the prepared mind\", Louis Pastuer

    Comment


    • #3
      Then it's a go. Let's see who gets some scores posted first.

      Everyone's invited.

      Bob

      A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks.
      --- Thomas Jefferson to Peter Carr, 1785. The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, (Memorial Edition) Lipscomb and Bergh, editors.
      Last edited by RJMcElwain; 03-19-2007, 21:33.
      Robert J. McElwain


      "The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." ~Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 (C.J.Boyd, Ed., 1950)

      "He who is not angry when there is just cause for anger is immoral."
      St. Thomas Aquinas

      One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors.

      Comment


      • #4
        CCW Marksmanship League

        My carry gun is a full size 5" Springfield 1911-A1 with Novak fiber optic high visibility fixed sights. Bullseye range in Wichita, Saturday - FBI Q target 20 yard distance, 8 shot group 2.02 inches worst center to center in the head of the target. Center of mass, 8 shot group 1.985 center to center on worst spread. This was my sight-in target just after I took the old Novak 3 dot low mount sights off the Springer 1911 and installed the fiber optic ones. I had rough zeroed the sights with a Laserlyte laser boresighter prior to the shooting session - 20 yard zero was right on.

        Took second in CDP/MM class, Sunday night's IDPA match at Bullseye.

        w0eb
        Negotiating with Obama is like playing chess with a pigeon. The pigeon
        knocks over all the pieces, craps on the board, and then struts around like
        it won the game.
        Life member NRA, US Army Security Agency Retired, KSRA member Retired KSCCH instructor.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by w0eb View Post
          My carry gun is a full size 5" Springfield 1911-A1 with Novak fiber optic high visibility fixed sights. Bullseye range in Wichita, Saturday - FBI Q target 20 yard distance, 8 shot group 2.02 inches worst center to center in the head of the target. Center of mass, 8 shot group 1.985 center to center on worst spread. This was my sight-in target just after I took the old Novak 3 dot low mount sights off the Springer 1911 and installed the fiber optic ones. I had rough zeroed the sights with a Laserlyte laser boresighter prior to the shooting session - 20 yard zero was right on.

          Took second in CDP/MM class, Sunday night's IDPA match at Bullseye.

          w0eb
          Damn fine shooting. If I'm ever confronted by a BG, will you stand right behind me?

          Hopeully, I'll get a chance to sneak out during this week. If not, this weekend.

          Bob
          Robert J. McElwain


          "The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." ~Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 (C.J.Boyd, Ed., 1950)

          "He who is not angry when there is just cause for anger is immoral."
          St. Thomas Aquinas

          One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors.

          Comment


          • #6
            Bob- That is a great idea. Look for it in the near future.
            Play stupid games
            Win stupid prizes

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by KS2A View Post
              Bob- That is a great idea. Look for it in the near future.
              It's always fun to tell people "I've got to get out to the firing range this weekend. I shoot in a pistol league and I've got to get my scores posted".

              With a reasonable number of people, you get the full range of reactions.


              Bob
              Robert J. McElwain


              "The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." ~Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 (C.J.Boyd, Ed., 1950)

              "He who is not angry when there is just cause for anger is immoral."
              St. Thomas Aquinas

              One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors.

              Comment


              • #8
                glock 22, b-27 "reduced" target, 7yrds, 30rds, only 3 outside of the 8 ring, 2 in the 7.
                i have not been shooting vary long, but i do think i am improving.
                Last edited by joe138; 03-22-2007, 09:47.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Okay. Here's my theory. According to what I've read, the average gun fight will last about 13 seconds and will occur within a range of seven yards. Assuming the experts are right and the above is true, I guess that's how I should practice. So here's one of the practice routines for my carry pistols.

                  Normally, I'll put up a sheet of newsprint and stick on a couple of red dots. I then measure off seven yards and try to put as many holes in the dot as possible within 13 seconds. It's not Bulls-eye, but its' a challenge.

                  For this League, rather than use newsprint and a dot, I hung NRA B-3 Style 50 foot Rapid fire Targets. I shot two targets each for my Kel Tec and my SIG P232.

                  Kel-Tec P3AT
                  6,7,7,8,9,10=47 and 1-X
                  6,7,8,8,8,10=47

                  SIG P232
                  6,6,7,8,9,9,9,10=64 and 1-X
                  6,6,7,7,7,7,9,10=59

                  I was shooting Remington UMC Range Ammo. Everything at 7 yards and you shoot 'til the magazine is empty. But a 13 second time limit. Just like the real world. This was at Mill Creek.

                  Lotsa fun.

                  Bob
                  Robert J. McElwain


                  "The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." ~Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 (C.J.Boyd, Ed., 1950)

                  "He who is not angry when there is just cause for anger is immoral."
                  St. Thomas Aquinas

                  One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Statistically speaking, better mental conditioning takes place when practicing on a silouette target as far as practicing for self defense. When I teach Defensive Shooting classes I use QR (threat - man with gun) targets and IALEFI Hostage targets (BG Holding a hostage). At least 80% of a gunfight is mental conditioning.

                    Most self-defense shootings take place at a distance of 5 yards to 7 yards with 80% being at less than a distance of 5 yards. Over 70% take place in low light situations and 50% involve multiple assailants. Most gunfights occur at a maximum distance of 15 yards. The average gunfight takes place within three seconds and you may fire six, seven or eight rounds in that time. Your goal is to be able to place 2 perfect shots to the target in less than one second including time to draw from the holster. (These Statistics per Ken Hackathorn). Just one point of view.
                    Immediate Past President & Lobbyist
                    Kansas State Rifle Association (KSRA)
                    Retired October 2015

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      HK P2000, b-27 "reduced" target, 7yrds, 24rds, only 1 outside of the 8 ring. was the first 24 round i have ever shot out of my new HK.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        After I sighted in my pistol and worked out the ammo I was going to carry I do not shoot a lot of bulls eye type targets with my carry gun. I practice drawing from concealed holster and several differant shooting drills on a man size target. I will however shoot a few targets with my carry gun next time I am out so I can play along.

                        I have several other handguns I shoot paper with that are 5" & 6" barrel guns and are tack drivers but those are not my carry piece. I have no desire to carry my target pistols every day.
                        Good judgment comes from experience. Unfortunately, the experience usually comes from bad judgment.
                        Double Tap Defensive Shooting Club * NRA Instructor * KS CCH Instructor * Tactical Commander, Round Man Militia
                        http://www.freetrapper.com/cdstation http://www.kawvalleyinc.com http://www.teamdirtdevil.com

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Patricia Stoneking View Post
                          Statistically speaking, better mental conditioning takes place when practicing on a silouette target as far as practicing for self defense. When I teach Defensive Shooting classes I use QR (threat - man with gun) targets and IALEFI Hostage targets (BG Holding a hostage). At least 80% of a gunfight is mental conditioning.

                          Most self-defense shootings take place at a distance of 5 yards to 7 yards with 80% being at less than a distance of 5 yards. Over 70% take place in low light situations and 50% involve multiple assailants. Most gunfights occur at a maximum distance of 15 yards. The average gunfight takes place within three seconds and you may fire six, seven or eight rounds in that time. Your goal is to be able to place 2 perfect shots to the target in less than one second including time to draw from the holster. (These Statistics per Ken Hackathorn). Just one point of view.
                          Patricia,

                          Good points. I guess I'll have to get some silhouette targets.

                          Bob
                          Robert J. McElwain


                          "The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." ~Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 (C.J.Boyd, Ed., 1950)

                          "He who is not angry when there is just cause for anger is immoral."
                          St. Thomas Aquinas

                          One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            After attending a club shoot in St Joe last night, thanks again for the invite Chuck, I found that after practicing with silhouette targets pretty much all the time had me hitting them quick and hard in the matchs, but I defenatly need work on the small plates. It looks to me like a practice with different targets at different distances is the way I'm going to go for awhile.
                            \"Chance favores the prepared mind\", Louis Pastuer

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Greg,

                              You're welcome, glad you could make it.

                              I use both, paper/cardboard for accuracy, steel for speed. Vary distances, add movement, throw in some hostages and barricade/cover shots. I think you?ve got to vary distances or you?ll never get down the idea of a ?good enough? sight picture to make that particular hit.

                              Then when you think you've got it all figured out, attend a match or some training and learn what you don't know. After all, it's what you ?think? you know that gets you in trouble.

                              See you in a couple weeks?

                              Chuck
                              The Lion Does Not Turn Around When the Small Dog Barks

                              Which is a nice way of saying I don't interact with Azzclowns..........

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