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  • Jim Macklin
    replied
    Honey gets more flies than vinegar. Lots of people tend to blame administrators for less than perfect laws. And too many laws are passed without all the little details in the first drafts.

    The system does work because people like Patrica do a lot of hard and good works.

    If you are not yet a KSRA member, join. If you are not an NRA member, shame on you. If you don't know who your legislator is and write them an occasional friendly letter, don't expect to get the laws changed.

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  • jlwman
    replied
    Originally posted by RexDart View Post
    My guess is that this is like the renewal "test" you get for your driver's license.
    I know people who have failed the DL renewal test. The one they send with the test and the answer book. MMMMMMMHHHMMMMMMM.....

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  • MartyG
    replied
    Patricia, you have taken us GIANT steps ahead of what we expected, and well towards what we had even hoped for. Not bad at all for the FIRST renewal process, eh guys? Your mastery of the process, the "bargaining chips" and the like, have served us well. Thank you! (and because you like this particular compliment, " You ROCK!") Thanks too, to Jim, and all the others who support this effort day in, and day out, and are too modest to even take credit for it! Thank you all.

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  • RexDart
    replied
    My guess is that this is like the renewal "test" you get for your driver's license. It's open book, and forces the testee to read through the book to find the answers. The only way to not get 100% would be to guess, and not check vs. the book.

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  • jlwman
    replied
    Originally posted by Patricia Stoneking View Post
    You will receive a CCH handbook by mail with your renewal notice and it will contain a written test which you will fill out and bring completed to your renewal class which will be 2 hours in length, no shooting. You must get 100% on the written test which will be reviewed in the renewal class and turned in to your instructor.

    Patricia
    Just a question....what happens if you for some God forsaken reason don't get 100%? Will it be like a DL test? Do you get another chance or do you lose your license and have to start from scratch.

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  • RexDart
    replied
    Thank you, Patricia for both fighting this on the front lines, and keeping us informed! Let us know when to start flooding our Reps with calls.

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  • Patricia Stoneking
    replied
    We had our initial Advisory Committee meeting June 16. Sorry it's taken me so long to get this posted but I've been swamped between TMSA and KSRA so I haven't had time to get on here in a long time and I know Macklin and W0eb keeps everyone posted on things pretty good but this one thing no one would have knowledge of so here I am. Just know that when I am not present here, I'm working to improve and protect our rights.

    I'm not going to go into an entire days worth of discussions but here is the bottom line. The Advisory Committee recommended to the AG that we stay with what is already written into statute and that is a 2 hour legal review. Most likely, here is what will happen. You will receive a CCH handbook by mail with your renewal notice and it will contain a written test which you will fill out and bring completed to your renewal class which will be 2 hours in length, no shooting. You must get 100% on the written test which will be reviewed in the renewal class and turned in to your instructor.

    Initially, renewal notices will be sent 180 days in advance instead of 90 days to allow for the large number of folks who will expire all at once in the beginning days to insure the opportunity for them to get into a class. You will not be able to take the renewal class until you get your renewal notice with the written test in it.

    Now, with that said, we discussed changes that will have to be legislatively dealt with such as eliminating the trip to the Sheriff's office. KSRA will be bringing a bill forward in January 2010 to do just that. We will also propose in that bill to eliminate the language "notorized signature on the application", eliminate the need for a new passport photo and eliminate the 6 month residency requirement. We will most likely have the support of the AG on these issues. We will also most likely have the Sheriff's fighting us tooth and nail on it.

    We also discussed reducing the level of violation of the NO CCH signs. We also discussed clarifying the requirements for posting of the signs so that inner doors are not acceptable, signs obstructed by stacks of boxes are not acceptable and such. The bill we bring will reduce violation of the sign to a slap on the wrist for a first offense but I will tell you all up front that we will probably not get that, at least not this year and it will most likely be used as a bargaining chip to get everything else we want.

    The AG's office will forward to the Advisory Committee a written curriculum draft which we will review and comment on and we will meet again if necessary. Then once it's finalized it will be sent to instructors. Keep in mind that we can't change legislative issues until next legislative session beginning in January 2010 so it could change again and have to be re-issued. The first permits do not expire until January 3, 2011. The first renewal notices will go out July 1, 2010 (180 days) but don't have to go out until October 3, 2010 (90 days). If we get our bill passed it may delay the target date of July 1, 2010 because everything will have to be re-done. Alot could depend on how quickly we get the bill through the legislature and if its vetoed or signed by the Gov.

    If you have specific questions, I'll be glad to answer them but please keep in mind that I don't have time for now, or in the forseen future, to get on the forum much at all and the best way to get an answer from me will be to email me at vfm-targetmaster@bizkc.rr.com. It takes too long to log-in to get a private message so use the email address I just gave you. That's how seriously busy I am right now with no end in sight.

    Hope you all are having a great summer!

    Patricia

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  • Jim Macklin
    replied
    Originally posted by KLH View Post
    There are several states that Kansas Honers that doesn't honer Kansas. If we could get those states to honor Kansas it would be a great improvement.

    I don't expect California, Oregon, or the East Coast Block that doesn't honor anyone else to honor the Kansas CCH but the requirements for Kansas pretty much match Utah's so we should also be able to get those additional states that honors Utah to honor Kansas unless Kansas doesn't honor that state.
    The original Nebraska law did not allow them to honor any other state, that has changed with the new revision. Expect Nebraska to honor Kansas and several other states soon. Iowa is also soon to revise their CCW law.

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  • kanhunter
    replied
    I been absent from the forum for awhile (busy with family) so I haven't had a chance to read the complete thread; so forgive me if I am repeating other comments.

    Of course the Re-cert needs to include all the updates made in the CCH law since the licenses were issued.
    This would include the current AG's interpetations of aspects in the law.
    The shooting requirement should remain the same as the initial certification.
    Class hour requirements can be half or less of those for initial-cert.

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  • KLH
    replied
    There are several states that Kansas Honers that doesn't honer Kansas. If we could get those states to honor Kansas it would be a great improvement.

    I don't expect California, Oregon, or the East Coast Block that doesn't honor anyone else to honor the Kansas CCH but the requirements for Kansas pretty much match Utah's so we should also be able to get those additional states that honors Utah to honor Kansas unless Kansas doesn't honor that state.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jim Macklin
    replied
    Originally posted by KLH View Post
    I'm looking at getting a Utah permit that doesn't require a shooting portion just to qualify to carry in a few more states that I may travel in of vacation. Kansas should cover reciprocity with all of those states. How can Utah qualify for reciprocity with these other states and Kansas not? Whatever needs to happen for recertification needs to include whatever is necessary to get reciprocity with as many states as possible. You shouldn't need a pocket full of licenses from other states just to travel on vacation. (Besides that, I cant afford to travel if I have to get a pocket full of licenses)
    It is subjective and mutual. Not all states automatically recognize others. Missouri is great, ANY government issued license is honored. Kansas almost got that, except we have "if the attorney
    general determines that standards for issuance of such license or permit by such state or district are equal
    to or greater than the standards imposed by this act" which is open to interpretation.
    It took thirty years to get CCH passed in Kansas, less than 3 years of experience with the law.
    Some states don't require a range test, some don't require US citizenship, some don't require recurrent training. Some states don't recognize any license or even issue a license.
    Think of it as a reason to stay alive and politically active. And add that Utah permit and you'll get just about everywhere worth traveling to.

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  • KLH
    replied
    I'm looking at getting a Utah permit that doesn't require a shooting portion just to qualify to carry in a few more states that I may travel in of vacation. Kansas should cover reciprocity with all of those states. How can Utah qualify for reciprocity with these other states and Kansas not? Whatever needs to happen for recertification needs to include whatever is necessary to get reciprocity with as many states as possible. You shouldn't need a pocket full of licenses from other states just to travel on vacation. (Besides that, I cant afford to travel if I have to get a pocket full of licenses)

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  • Patricia Stoneking
    replied
    Originally posted by LGM View Post
    As always, Patricia, you rock! Thanks.
    Originally posted by MartyG View Post
    Patricia, I'm sure I'm not alone in thanking you for your valiant efforts! Whatever reduction/relief we get out of this will be because of you! Get what you can this time, there will always be future reviews and updates. Rock on!
    Thanks guys! At my age someone saying I rock is very nice to hear! I'm going to squeeze it for all it's worth. Then we'll continue whittling away at the legislation all we can.

    Back in 2006 I had a meeting with a gentleman who is my counterpart in Texas. He talked about all the changes in 12 years of having CC and related how KS would no doubt follow the same path of shaving away at it until we find ourselves with nothing to complain about. While we don't have the best least restrictive law right now, we still have one of the better ones compared to a lot of states.

    Jordan and I will be putting in time over the summer and fall to get legislation together, get support and legislative sponsors for the bills we want to introduce and then hopefully get it done for 2010. The tactic is to always ask for more than we can expect to get because that allows for negotiating room. Anyone who works legislation understands that we have to negotiate so we will always ask for more and expect some middle ground. After the 2010 election, for the 2011 legislative session we have an even better chance at major change because we'll have a new Governor, and odds are it could be an 'A' rated Governor no matter the party. The next year and a half will be an interesting one from the political side of things in KS.

    I might add that when I mentioned the sign violation being equivalent to a parking ticket, I'm talking about what we expect to end up with, not what we will ask for.

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  • freetrapper
    replied
    I hate to spend more time than we need to but............

    I talk with a lot of KS CCH holders that do not know the changes in the law and frankly do not remember a lot of the original class. With this said I do not have a problem with the 2 hour refresher course.

    Now if we did not have it I would enjoy that as well but I do feel many folks out there can use the refresher.

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  • kensnra
    replied
    Patricia,
    Hopefully with an established history that reflects positively on KS CCH, will be helpful when trying to get the law updated to something less onerous.

    Keep up your good work, it is appreciated.

    Ken

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