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C.A.R. In A Car

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  • C.A.R. In A Car

    Drawing from AIWB and going to C.A.R. eliminates the steering wheel issue that I have seen entire videos dedicated to and also the need to lean back while moving the arms to full extension, much more efficient

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJ2AF6YJ1No

    "I suppose it's tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail...." ~Abraham Maslow~

    "Skill makes you harder to kill" ~ Unknown

  • #2
    Interesting video. A question, if I might: would it not have been safer for him to stay in the car and drive away? Then when he is a safe distance away, stop and call the police/
    Taceant colloquia. Effugiat risus. Hic locus est ubi mors gaudet succurrere vitae.
    The Pale Horse available on Amazon for your digital reader.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by gerhard1 View Post
      Interesting video. A question, if I might: would it not have been safer for him to stay in the car and drive away? Then when he is a safe distance away, stop and call the police/
      Dunno
      "I suppose it's tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail...." ~Abraham Maslow~

      "Skill makes you harder to kill" ~ Unknown

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by ricco View Post
        Drawing from AIWB and going to C.A.R. eliminates the steering wheel issue that I have seen entire videos dedicated to and also the need to lean back while moving the arms to full extension, much more efficient

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJ2AF6YJ1No
        It removes some effort in places but increases the need for effort in others. The bent elbows does not allow the control that full extension can. The question is, how much control is really needed. Who knows. The threat dictates that. It may be enough it may not be.

        In most cases leaning is happening during the draw. Pushing yourself back into threat is likely going to happen naturally as part of the startle. It also helps stabilize us in the seat. Hard to base out while seated.

        I've always felt that the steering wheel thing is made into a bigger issue than it is. I don't bring the gun over the wheel, stopped recommending it, and don't recall ever having an issue or anyone having an issue with the wheel running interference. You have to be sitting fairly far forward for it to be a problem.

        --------

        When is staying and fighting a better decision when getting away is an option.
        Failure is an opportunity to learn.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by mjkeat View Post

          It removes some effort in places but increases the need for effort in others. The bent elbows does not allow the control that full extension can.
          Actually it allows for a great deal of control once the position is learned and practiced, no different than anything else

          When moving and shooting to the right side I am a little more accurate using CAR than fully extended



          "I suppose it's tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail...." ~Abraham Maslow~

          "Skill makes you harder to kill" ~ Unknown

          Comment


          • #6
            All things equal regardless of the person, moving while shooting does not allow for the accuracy or precision potential that shooting while not moving does. I'd say the same goes for shooting arms bent vs. elbows locked with less effort.

            I'm not saying one can't control the gun enough with bent elbows but it requires muscling the gun, actively trying to control the gun via arm and shoulder strength. What happens for the individual with little or no arm strength?

            I remember watching a video of this big muscle bound guy shooting with arms bent saying it was the best way and thinking, easy for you to say.

            I've watched people struggle to get their guns to work reliably while shooting elbows bent because of the bent elbows. They weren't able to isolate the frame of the gun as much causing the slide not to travel far enough rearward under recoil to either pick up the next round or create enough energy to chamber the round.

            How much control, precision and accuracy will be needed? I couldn't tell you. A lot of pr all of things are likely to allow for enough of those things to get the job done.

            My main concern is stopping the threat as quickly as possible.
            Last edited by mjkeat; 01-10-2019, 04:17.
            Failure is an opportunity to learn.

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            • #7
              I'm going to look into this some more.
              Failure is an opportunity to learn.

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              • #8
                Is this a good explanation of CAR?

                https://www.pewpewtactical.com/center-axis-relock/
                Taceant colloquia. Effugiat risus. Hic locus est ubi mors gaudet succurrere vitae.
                The Pale Horse available on Amazon for your digital reader.

                Comment


                • #9
                  It's okay, it hit the high points

                  With only two CAR classes under my belt any kind of in depth explanation is beyond me

                  The C.A.R manual the instructor taught from appeared to be about 50 pages front and back and we barely got into it

                  People think C.A.R is just a different way to hold the pistol, it is far more

                  As stated in the article CAR isn't necessarily meant to replace Isosceles or Weaver but rather a position to be shifted to when ranges change (or if the fight starts close up)

                  So much of fighting regardless of the type is about timing and distance or range and in a fight ranges change

                  I have only been working CAR for about a year and I don't even think about transitioning from Isosceles to CAR and back again, it just happens

                  Some say the police don't use it so it must not work, but like so many things the conversation stops short

                  LEO's wear armor so taking side ways stance presents the gap in the armor and for that reason most LEO's will never look at anything else CAR has to offer

                  For the non armor wearing person a side on stance presents less of a target

                  As an aside this is nothing new, in the dueling days squared up versus side on stances were a hotly debated topic

                  "I suppose it's tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail...." ~Abraham Maslow~

                  "Skill makes you harder to kill" ~ Unknown

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Knowing how people react naturally and having not only seen proof in person but also in the mountain of cctv/security footage available I'd be interested in seeing how someone practiced in C.A.R. reacts.

                    We know from police dash and body cam footage that officers who have trained in weaver rarely if ever actually shoot from weaver.

                    When talking about bladed vs squared and how it may or may not increase or decrease trauma to internals I've heard it all. Some will argue that a hit to a bladed target actually has increased potential for internal injuries as things are more in-line. Bullets seem yonbounce around a lot so who knows.

                    The question that keeps coming up, do I choose a technique that allows me to control the gun better-er and mimics the position my body is likely to get into naturally and marches up with the stance utilized in many other aspects of self defense and day to day life or...
                    Failure is an opportunity to learn.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by mjkeat View Post
                      Knowing how people react naturally and having not only seen proof in person but also in the mountain of cctv/security footage available I'd be interested in seeing how someone practiced in C.A.R. reacts.

                      We know from police dash and body cam footage that officers who have trained in weaver rarely if ever actually shoot from weaver.

                      When talking about bladed vs squared and how it may or may not increase or decrease trauma to internals I've heard it all. Some will argue that a hit to a bladed target actually has increased potential for internal injuries as things are more in-line. Bullets seem yonbounce around a lot so who knows.

                      The question that keeps coming up, do I choose a technique that allows me to control the gun better-er and mimics the position my body is likely to get into naturally and marches up with the stance utilized in many other aspects of self defense and day to day life or...
                      We can burn in alternatives that go against what the body wants to do naturally but we have to work at it, a one time training class and little or no practice won't do it

                      Neuroscience says it takes 1200- 2000 repetitions to build an unconscious response

                      The problem is that most training does not incorporate a proper stimulus that will build the proper unconscious response

                      A proper draw is an example of training that goes against what the body wants to do naturally, we know a proper draw is to lift the pistol straight up out of the holster and then push it straight out, two completely different lines of motion

                      That action goes against what is innate, when we point, the arm is simply raised. When asked where something is we do not make a drawing motion to point

                      If we were simply raise the arm to draw a pistol that drawing motion would be called "bowling", a motion we see used by people who are "untrained"

                      We did this video in 2012, early on in my training and this is not what I would do now, that said, I had heard of CAR (not a good CAR presentation shown here) but didn't know much about it, this is just where the pistol went, this is what I did naturally

                      This was done at 5 yards

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUKRn12J2j8




                      Last edited by ricco; 01-11-2019, 17:28.
                      "I suppose it's tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail...." ~Abraham Maslow~

                      "Skill makes you harder to kill" ~ Unknown

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Some C.A.R. drills

                        I've never met Jeff but as it turns out we both studied Filipino Martial Arts with Datu Kelly Worden

                        Small world

                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HErr...qQk4pi&index=2
                        "I suppose it's tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail...." ~Abraham Maslow~

                        "Skill makes you harder to kill" ~ Unknown

                        Comment

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