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  • The Draw

    What is the secret of a fast draw?

    First let me say what the secret is not. It's not going for blinding speed. Now, this might sound like a contradiction in terms, but it really isn't. The first book I ever got on guns was Chic Gaylord's excellent Handgunner's Guide. In that book, which I was given about 50 years ago, and I still have it, he says the most common mistake made by beginners is try to go too fast when they draw the gun from a holster. George C Nonte said essentially the same thing.. Nonte made the point that you should draw the gun at first at about the same speed that you would take your handkerchief from your pocket.

    Concentrate on clearing the cover garment and drawing the gun as smoothly as possible. Make your motions as smooth as possible and after many repetitions, they become second nature. As they become second nature (basically nothing more than muscle memory) the speed of the draw will increase.

    Remember: smooth is fast.

    Thoughts?
    Taceant colloquia. Effugiat risus. Hic locus est ubi mors gaudet succurrere vitae.
    The Pale Horse available on Amazon for your digital reader.
    I don't know why I'm better with revolvers, keat so please stop asking.

  • #2
    The "draw" is difficult to quantify

    It depends on context

    We watch Bob Munden draw faster than we can blink

    We watch Bill Jordan start with foam cup sitting on the back of his drawing hand, draw his revolver and hit the cup with a blank before it hits the floor

    We watch Max Michel draw, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGgiymq7me8, he is a machine. I have watched him for years and it's always the same

    We watch John Lovell draw for concealment, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNX3o-trdTc


    As outstanding as these examples are they have little in common with REACTIVE self defense

    Whether our fight starts with walking into gun muzzle in a dimly lighted parking lot, a piece of rusty pipe across the back of the head or "Hey, do you know where.....is?" none of the above example apply

    We have to take reaction time into consideration, https://www.reference.com/health/ave...cbed7617fa4bd2

    While most BG's won't have the reaction time of elite athletes, most, if threatened by seeing you drawing your pistol will still be able to react before you can bring your pistol to bear

    We should practice the mechanics of the draw (I do) but we need to keep it in perspective, chances are it won't be like the range
    "I suppose it's tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail...." ~Abraham Maslow~

    "Skill makes you harder to kill" ~ Unknown

    Comment


    • #3
      Smooth is smooth, fast is fast and slow is slow. Smooth is not fast, it is smooth.

      Muscles do not have memory.

      A fast draw may be important but it may not. A consistent and reliable presentation of your defensive tool is more important. Speed doesn't mean a whole lot if it's not consistent or reliable.

      Gun games, the context in which most people here look at things isn't self defense.

      I bet we can all imagine how fast these people would be able to draw during a sudden assault or some sort of duress.

      It's an absolute disservice to continue the cycle of rangisms.
      Failure is an opportunity to learn.

      Comment


      • #4
        When it is time to draw, it works better if the draw goes smoothly; a natural motion with no thought needed to perform the action. This happens with repetition, practice, ingrained muscle memory. The same motion each time; there will be variables depending, for example, on what type of cover garment is worn; it takes slightly different technique to draw from under a light vest or sport coat than from under a heavy winter coat--same basic movements, but more or less material to get out of the way. Whatever cover garment, there is a difference between, say, a light jacket with empty gun-side pockets and one with some weight in the pocket--the movement of the material is different. A casual or polo-type shirt that will need the tail lifted out of the way takes a different movement than the jacket or vest--whether the weak hand pulls the shirt up to give access to the gun or the gun-hand thumb is used to lift the tail up past the gun to give access.
        In any case, the grasp of the gun and the draw and presentation should be the same each time, from the gun hand's 'point of view.' Once you've got your grip (grasp) on the gun, the draw and presentation should be as identical as possible as the last dozen/hundred times you did it. If it is a learned, ingrained, movement, the speed will come naturally--there will be no need for thought or preparation, it will just happen. Of course, this all depends on 1) mindset--have you made the decision that you need to draw, and there is/will be no hesitation; and 2) context (oh, that word!)--are you A) drawing for an immediate defensive purpose--you need the gun NOW; or B) drawing for a 'prepared ready' situation, in which you want the gun in-hand in case it's needed, but nobody needs to know you have it out yet? (This is where a BUG in a pants/jacket/coat pocket can work well, but that's a whole 'nother sub-topic on the question)?

        Of course, the question of speed need might be different in the case of a 'game', where 1/10 second might determine whether your spot on the score card is First Prize or Second--though the ability to draw smoothly and quickly in that situation also can translate into real life. Ace2
        Sometimes the term 'Idiot' is a description and not an insult.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Ace View Post
          When it is time to draw, it works better if the draw goes smoothly; a natural motion with no thought needed to perform the action. This happens with repetition, practice, ingrained muscle memory. The same motion each time; there will be variables depending, for example, on what type of cover garment is worn; it takes slightly different technique to draw from under a light vest or sport coat than from under a heavy winter coat--same basic movements, but more or less material to get out of the way. Whatever cover garment, there is a difference between, say, a light jacket with empty gun-side pockets and one with some weight in the pocket--the movement of the material is different. A casual or polo-type shirt that will need the tail lifted out of the way takes a different movement than the jacket or vest--whether the weak hand pulls the shirt up to give access to the gun or the gun-hand thumb is used to lift the tail up past the gun to give access.
          In any case, the grasp of the gun and the draw and presentation should be the same each time, from the gun hand's 'point of view.' Once you've got your grip (grasp) on the gun, the draw and presentation should be as identical as possible as the last dozen/hundred times you did it. If it is a learned, ingrained, movement, the speed will come naturally--there will be no need for thought or preparation, it will just happen. Of course, this all depends on 1) mindset--have you made the decision that you need to draw, and there is/will be no hesitation; and 2) context (oh, that word!)--are you A) drawing for an immediate defensive purpose--you need the gun NOW; or B) drawing for a 'prepared ready' situation, in which you want the gun in-hand in case it's needed, but nobody needs to know you have it out yet? (This is where a BUG in a pants/jacket/coat pocket can work well, but that's a whole 'nother sub-topic on the question)?

          Of course, the question of speed need might be different in the case of a 'game', where 1/10 second might determine whether your spot on the score card is First Prize or Second--though the ability to draw smoothly and quickly in that situation also can translate into real life. Ace2
          I am re-thinking my carrying only 4" (or longer) revolvers and maybe will be adding a 2"; something like a J-frame in addition to my 4" wheelguns that I normally carry.
          Taceant colloquia. Effugiat risus. Hic locus est ubi mors gaudet succurrere vitae.
          The Pale Horse available on Amazon for your digital reader.
          I don't know why I'm better with revolvers, keat so please stop asking.

          Comment


          • #6
            Good idea. Ace2
            Sometimes the term 'Idiot' is a description and not an insult.

            Comment


            • #7
              Fantasy land scenario for all practical purposes plus... try that method in a little realistic FoF and get back to me. Some of you need s dose of reality.
              Failure is an opportunity to learn.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by gerhard1 View Post
                What is the secret of a fast draw?

                First let me say what the secret is not. It's not going for blinding speed. Now, this might sound like a contradiction in terms, but it really isn't. The first book I ever got on guns was Chic Gaylord's excellent Handgunner's Guide. In that book, which I was given about 50 years ago, and I still have it, he says the most common mistake made by beginners is try to go too fast when they draw the gun from a holster. George C Nonte said essentially the same thing.. Nonte made the point that you should draw the gun at first at about the same speed that you would take your handkerchief from your pocket.

                Concentrate on clearing the cover garment and drawing the gun as smoothly as possible. Make your motions as smooth as possible and after many repetitions, they become second nature. As they become second nature (basically nothing more than muscle memory) the speed of the draw will increase.

                Remember: smooth is fast.

                Thoughts?
                The slow and smooth idea is why karate kata is taught at slow speed at first, to get the technique (movement/"form") correct, and to then build muscle memory. After you learn the technique and have repeated it a thousand times (not a magic number, but representing "a lot of times") correctly, then thinking about how to react in a situation is not required--you just automatically use the technique that is required to solve the situation. This can translate to weapon martial arts, too, whether the weapon is a stick, a chair, a knife, sword, cane or pistol, the brain has the pathways already in place to use whatever is required to solve the tactical problem.
                http://youtu.be/ei8OK4WdoW0
                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4CuH...e=channel_page
                http://www.stoppingpower.net/comment...tervention.asp
                http://youtu.be/wXwPtP-KDNk
                https://youtu.be/Iy71umadb6k

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Goodtime Charlie View Post

                  The slow and smooth idea is why karate kata is taught at slow speed at first, to get the technique (movement/"form") correct, and to then build muscle memory. After you learn the technique and have repeated it a thousand times (not a magic number, but representing "a lot of times") correctly, then thinking about how to react in a situation is not required--you just automatically use the technique that is required to solve the situation. This can translate to weapon martial arts, too, whether the weapon is a stick, a chair, a knife, sword, cane or pistol, the brain has the pathways already in place to use whatever is required to solve the tactical problem.
                  Automatic? Without thought? Are you sure?
                  Failure is an opportunity to learn.

                  Comment

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