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  • Gunsite

    It sounds good and I am thinking of saving my pennies and going some day.

    https://www.gunsite.com/
    Taceant colloquia. Effugiat risus. Hic locus est ubi mors gaudet succurrere vitae.
    The Pale Horse available on Amazon for your digital reader.
    I don't know why I'm better with revolvers, keat so please stop asking.

  • #2
    What sounds good about it?
    Failure is an opportunity to learn.

    Comment


    • #3
      gerhard,

      I've never been, I have taken the 250 course from guys that were licensed to teach it. I missed a chance to go fro a carbine class last year with some friends because i had a TDY trip to Australia. I have several friends that have been there multiple times and I worked/trained with a Colonel that was a personal friend of Coopers and went on several safari's with him. I actually met Cooper through him when he visited the ACR in Germany. I'm not a Cooper fan though.....

      All have told me that the instruction at Gunsite was top notch and the facilities were fantastic. When you factor in travel, lodging, ammo and their tuition it is kind of expensive, so start saving or sell a kidney...
      The Lion Does Not Turn Around When the Small Dog Barks

      Comment


      • #4
        Hey Chuck, guess what? Gunsite has a class for--are you ready?--wheelguns!!

        And to tell the truth, while I agree with most of what he says, I don't idolize the man either. He had some good ideas, but I can still pick and choose the ideas that work best for me. One thing I do agree with Gunsite on is their acknowledgment that there is no one gun that everyone will be best with. All they ask that you try what they teach and if you have problems with it, go to something that works for you.
        Taceant colloquia. Effugiat risus. Hic locus est ubi mors gaudet succurrere vitae.
        The Pale Horse available on Amazon for your digital reader.
        I don't know why I'm better with revolvers, keat so please stop asking.

        Comment


        • #5
          You're going to have to save lot's of penny's

          $1750.00 for the class

          If you reload you might get by for $100.00 - $150.00, if not double ii

          It would also be a good thing to have lot's and lot's of speed loaders, making the class wait while you reload won't make you popular

          The revolver class is 4 days, so food and lodging for 4 days and nights plus travel food and lodging or you can reserve a tent site for only $15.00 extra a night, never mind the rattlesnakes

          Then there is gas for the vehicle.................

          Yeah lot's of penny's

          All that for basic shooting drills that you most likely already know, although I did see one video that showed moving and shooting, yeah that 12 inch step to the side changes everything

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMhSED8bKso
          "I suppose it's tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail...." ~Abraham Maslow~

          "Skill makes you harder to kill" ~ Unknown

          Comment


          • #6
            G, I get the distinct impression you neglected to get permission from the resident 'experts'. Did you forget, or are you waiting until you've saved up? Ace2
            ​​
            Sometimes the term 'Idiot' is a description and not an insult.

            Comment


            • #7
              gerhard,

              Yup I saw that, they offer quite a bit of variety. Plenty of reviews available on line that get into detail on what to expect and what will be covered. Whether or not it's worth it is really up to you.

              One of the guys I was suppose to attend the carbine class last year with has taken a chitload of training with some of the best instructors in the country, is a retired SF officer that still occasionally does some contract work. He himself is a pretty good instructor and he spoke very favorably about the instructors he's seen there. I've been in multiple classes with him and he's generally spot on on his assessments.

              I'd read some reviews and see if it's for you.

              The Lion Does Not Turn Around When the Small Dog Barks

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Ace View Post
                G, I get the distinct impression you neglected to get permission from the resident 'experts'. Did you forget, or are you waiting until you've saved up? Ace2
                ​​
                Did I say he shouldn't go?

                I didn't did I

                Maybe you don't know what a forum is for

                forum Dictionary result for forum

                /ˈfrəm/
                noun
                1.
                a place, meeting, or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged.


                It's okay most people here don't know what a FORUM is supposed to be, rather than a place for the exchange of ideas people here see it as a place for insults


                "I suppose it's tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail...." ~Abraham Maslow~

                "Skill makes you harder to kill" ~ Unknown

                Comment


                • #9
                  If you're into dogma it's right up your alley.

                  I have been on the range with a couple different gunsite instructors and a few gunsite alumni and it's all the same. I wasn't impressed. Lots of pewpew very little knowledge or understanding of "why". We all know shooting is but an extremely small part of self defense. The pewpew was dated as well. The mental side of it was as well.

                  There's definately better out there for less money time and effort to boot.
                  Last edited by mjkeat; 02-07-2019, 03:12.
                  Failure is an opportunity to learn.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    No, you merely, and clearly insinuated he shouldn't go.
                    Gone. Good riddance.
                    Watch the **** storm continue without me.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      If ANYONE is going to drop close to $3000.00 on a basic class, regardless of who is teaching it, and put's it on a FORUM (see definition of Forum) I will take that as the person wanting to start a discussion

                      I gave my opinion
                      Last edited by ricco; 02-07-2019, 03:45.
                      "I suppose it's tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail...." ~Abraham Maslow~

                      "Skill makes you harder to kill" ~ Unknown

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by gerhard1 View Post
                        Hey Chuck, guess what? Gunsite has a class for--are you ready?--wheelguns!!

                        And to tell the truth, while I agree with most of what he says, I don't idolize the man either. He had some good ideas, but I can still pick and choose the ideas that work best for me. One thing I do agree with Gunsite on is their acknowledgment that there is no one gun that everyone will be best with. All they ask that you try what they teach and if you have problems with it, go to something that works for you.
                        I'm curious as to the mental process behind the attraction to this.
                        Failure is an opportunity to learn.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by mjkeat View Post

                          I'm curious as to the mental process behind the attraction to this.
                          Dunno

                          I guess people have different reasons for going to classes

                          These days I only do private classes and don't have to worry about all the time fillers and pew pew that so many think is important

                          Most reactive CCW engagements are 0-10 and as we see over and over again marksmanship (as shown in the Gunsite video) plays little or no part in the outcome

                          Let's look at a couple of things that are more important

                          What does play a major part in the outcome is biomechanics and body positioning in relationship to your opponent

                          We so often hear about "situational awareness" or "keep your head on a swivel" but it never goes any farther than those few words

                          Okay, we have kept our head on a swivel and we see a possible threat, now what

                          Without at least a basic understanding of spacial reasoning we see a possible threat but when and where do we get close enough to interact, will it favor us or them

                          If that possible threat is moving on an intersecting line we can change our speed, if the possible threat also changes speed to match us so as to keep the point of intersection the same that is an indicator

                          If your class is primarily focused on "shooting" and you go to that class because you want to shoot and be in the company of like minded people or if you already have a high degree of marksmanship skills and want to show those skills to others in the class for the attaboys then that is what you should do, nothing wrong with it, have a good time but don't fool yourself into thinking your are learning self defense

                          If you want to learn self defense there are far more important aspects than shooting
                          Last edited by ricco; 02-07-2019, 17:10.
                          "I suppose it's tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail...." ~Abraham Maslow~

                          "Skill makes you harder to kill" ~ Unknown

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by ricco View Post

                            Dunno

                            I guess people have different reasons for going to classes

                            These days I only do private classes and don't have to worry about all the time fillers and pew pew that so many think is important

                            Most reactive CCW engagements are 0-10 and as we see over and over again marksmanship (as shown in the Gunsite video) plays little or no part in the outcome

                            Let's look at a couple of things that are more important

                            What does play a major part in the outcome is biomechanics and body positioning in relationship to your opponent

                            We so often hear about "situational awareness" or "keep your head on a swivel" but it never goes any farther than those few words

                            Okay, we have kept our head on a swivel and we see a possible threat, now what

                            Without at least a basic understanding of spacial reasoning we see a possible threat but when and where do we get close enough to interact, will it favor us or them

                            If that possible threat is moving on an intersecting line we can change our speed, if the possible threat also changes speed to match us so as to keep the point of intersection the same that is an indicator

                            If your class is primarily focused on "shooting" and you go to that class because you want to shoot and be in the company of like minded people or if you already have a high degree of marksmanship skills and want to show those skills to others in the class for the attaboys then that is what you should do, nothing wrong with it, have a good time but don't fool yourself into thinking your are learning self defense

                            If you want to learn self defense there are far more important aspects than shooting
                            I hasn't watched the video (only watched the first 2 shooters) you linked until just now, holy **** that was bad and his only concern was her finger. That's not an I syructor that cares about this woman's skill development at all. That's like one of those feed yards just trying to fatten up the cow so they can ship them off so they can open a spot for the next cow. If what she did was what they instructed her to do the issue is bigger than I thought.

                            Look at her work space reload and you see why workspace reloads shouldn't be taught. Her magazine doesn't want to drop and the gun is out in no-man's land waiting to be jacked. That assessment is silly.

                            They're drawing their firearm before they be even oriented so they can gather info to know if they even need to present their firearm. That shows a lack of knowledge on the part of the instructor. If someone comes up behind us to play a practical joke, we're startled, and our response is to present our firearm while spinning around and shoot before we even know what's happening behind us... Does that sound appropriate?

                            Two rounds strings of fire? What are we missing here? The understanding that it is likely to take a multiple rpund string of fire to incapacitate a threat?

                            The old dude gets upset with himself, pauses, then? The instructor doesn't encourage him to continue or even share why it's so important to fight through the urge to stop and show displeasure in yourself during what should be a simulated sudden assault playing in his mind while shooting this drill. It's a mindset that they don't seem to be teaching. One of many things that separates pewpew marksmanship focused training from fight focused training.

                            Just a few points of contention watching the first 2 shooters in the video.

                            My first thought is that these people aren't looking for real info. They're looking for that pat on the back and a false sense of security or they're to reserved and polite to demand an actual education. For that kind of money I'd expect an actual education that would send me down a path that lead to the utmost efficiency in the context of self defense.

                            If all you're after is a pat on the back and someone to say good job regardless of the job you do than by all means it's absolutely your prerogative, your time, your money, go for it.

                            I will share this, in the world of fight focused training gunsite is regularly ridiculed by instructors who understand need vs. want.

                            I may go watch the rest of the video. Something about human curiosity and trainwrecks.

                            Edit: Why attend a class lead by someone with the idea that whatever works best is best or is going to allow for that mentality even if they don't agree?

                            If your going to do whatever you want and the instructor isn't going to push you to perform could you not save your money and just stay home and achieve the same end result?

                            Other than collecting a cert and having something to talk about with friends what are you purchasing by attending such a course?
                            Last edited by mjkeat; 02-07-2019, 20:24.
                            Failure is an opportunity to learn.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              gerhard,

                              If you're still interested now that the resident "little fish" have weighed in, PM me and I'll put you in touch with some guys that have been and actually know what they're talking about.
                              The Lion Does Not Turn Around When the Small Dog Barks

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