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  • A Question For Instructors

    We have Funker saying this is moment to educate rather than humiliate as was done by the CCW instructor who posted the picture

    If you were teaching the class would you say anything to him about his appearance

    Would you work it into the class that appearing too tactical might draw unwanted attention without mentioning him directly

    Would you just let it go and not say anything, deciding that he most likely will not be problem

    https://www.facebook.com/FunkerTacti...type=3&theater
    "I suppose it's tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail...." ~Abraham Maslow~

    "Skill makes you harder to kill" ~ Unknown

  • #2
    In my CCH classes, I make it clear that two things will automatically fail you in my class: inability to be safe with the firearm on the range (we can arrange remedial training for this), and a vigilante/'Paul Kersey' attitude (this one is irredeemable; you won't be carrying with my name on the paperwork). This mall ninja kid would likely get a private discussion, and if he didn't seem receptive or get the point, out he'd go.
    Posting such a photo to shame or ridicule is wrong. Personally, I might ask for permission for a photo for my own files, but would leave the head off so he couldn't be identified if it should somehow make it to the 'net. Shaming and ridicule is not a proper instruction/teaching method--at least in the CCH instruction arena. Ace2
    Sometimes the term 'Idiot' is a description and not an insult.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by ricco View Post
      We have Funker saying this is moment to educate rather than humiliate as was done by the CCW instructor who posted the picture

      If you were teaching the class would you say anything to him about his appearance

      Would you work it into the class that appearing too tactical might draw unwanted attention without mentioning him directly

      Would you just let it go and not say anything, deciding that he most likely will not be problem

      https://www.facebook.com/FunkerTacti...type=3&theater
      Educate first but a slight sting of embarrassment is a nice reminder that rarely is forgotten when the education falls short.

      I imagine the instructor who posted it went on about mall ninja or some other absurdity. Close?

      This is an example of a kid who hasn't been educated or has been improperly educated. It reminds me of a student who attended a class requiring a prerequisite based on the fact he had attended "advanced" training from the NRA. He was clueless. He was somewhat to blame but... How many other people have been fooled by B.S. instruction? I know I have been. We don't know what we don't know. We trust educators to have the integrity to send us down the correct path and it should be that way.

      Anyway. He was a safety concern, had no idea what was being discussed, and struggled to perform the physical requirements of the class. After explaining the what and why he still couldn't quite perform. Same result after demoing it. Finally I pulled out my phone and recorded him so he could see himself. Bingo.

      The instructor is a turd for doing what he did especially if he didn't take the time to educate the kid. I'd like to see the original post and commentary from the instructor. I'd be really interested in hearing what was said by the instructor in response to that kid.

      If an instructor isn't making recommendations whether it's gear, technique or whatever based on the best info at that moment they aren't an instructor.

      I'd like to know if that kid had ever taken any classes.

      This has nothing to do with appearances. It has everything to do with being logical and practical which should be based in efficiency in which one can perform. That gear seems to be a hindrance. In a fight focused class that gear would slowly be shed as the kid realizes on his own.

      Summation: Let him suffer for a time and he will then mention something. Your words will carry a lot more weight that way.

      Kicking people out of class is a copout and a sign of your inability to communicate/educate.

      Edit.

      Just saw the text from the instructor. Dbag. I wonder of that's a direct quote from the kid? I wonder if he's assuming the kid doesn't own a firearm or if he's simply going off the fact he doesn't have one on him at the moment in an area that looks an awful lot like a classroom, makeshift or not. This CCW program doesn't seem to be all that great.

      Mouth breather? His mouth is closed. Interesting.
      Last edited by mjkeat; 03-06-2019, 18:01.
      Failure is an opportunity to learn.

      Comment


      • #4
        Posting a picture of a person requires a waiver in most states. Just blanking the eyes does not really conceal the identity. The outfit and comment that he doesn't own a gun leads me to several questions.
        Is he a video game player and that outfit is what he thinks should be worn when shooting. A little education can cure that. But does he think he's a cop on a drug raid and knee and elbows need protection, education and evaluation are needed.
        But this all black "assault clothing" is also what "active shooters" often wear and that could mean trouble.

        All kinds of instructors must evaluate students attitudes and suitability. A shooting instructor has obvious criteria. A flight instructor also.
        The people think the Constitution protects their rights; But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
        If your religion says suicide and murder are wrong; Aren't you doing both if you are not prepared to defend your life and the lives of others?
        I am not a lawyer, but I have personal opinions.

        Comment


        • #5
          I can certainly see the concerns expressed.
          Taceant colloquia. Effugiat risus. Hic locus est ubi mors gaudet succurrere vitae.
          The Pale Horse available on Amazon for your digital reader.
          I don't know why I'm better with revolvers, keat so please stop asking.

          Comment


          • #6
            I've said this before: A student should be able to trust the instructor and not doubt their integrity. This student's trust was violated. Whoever decided this was a good idea shouldn't be leading anything or representing anyone that has anything to lose. He/She has just created undue liability against whatever entity they own or are employed by and damaged the dignity of a paying student in the process.

            Can you imagine how much student enthusiasm was wasted by a single incompetent instructor? I'd love to have a student that showed up this enthused and ready to learn. So much was lost in that moment that it could fill libraries.

            A real learning institution would not hesitate to terminate this person based on that alone; not to mention the inadequacy of integrity that this confirms.

            Would you want that malicious person teaching you and using your shortcoming moments as meme's? If you answer "yes", "maybe"; or even, "but sometimes", then it's probably time to evaluate your self-worth.

            Integrity takes a lifetime of hard work to build and only one weak moment to lose. That's a shame for everyone involved.
            Last edited by fixxer; 03-07-2019, 07:27.
            For the Angel of Death spread his wings on the blast,
            And breathed in the face of the foe as he passed;
            And the eyes of the sleepers waxed deadly and chill,
            And their hearts but once heaved, and for ever grew still!
            -Lord Byron (=5 lines)

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            • #7
              Damn fixxer, I always enjoy seeing you post. Thoughtful, no google or Facebook links, just a few moments of your time.

              I guess having nuns and Jesuits as teachers soured me on mockery and shaming as teaching tools. You may be the best there ever was, but if you drive people away, who benefits from your knowledge?
              Last edited by Not so big Tom; 03-07-2019, 11:42.
              Originally posted by kscardsfan
              Grain of salt hell, I'm taking it with a salt block from the feed store. Thats a big bunch of crap there.




              QUOTE=mjkeat;n1101496]****ing stupid.[/QUOTE]

              Comment


              • #8
                The man who showed up wearing that get-up was a pure fool. But shaming him was not right. Good call, fixxer.
                Taceant colloquia. Effugiat risus. Hic locus est ubi mors gaudet succurrere vitae.
                The Pale Horse available on Amazon for your digital reader.
                I don't know why I'm better with revolvers, keat so please stop asking.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by fixxer View Post
                  I've said this before: A student should be able to trust the instructor and not doubt their integrity. This student's trust was violated. Whoever decided this was a good idea shouldn't be leading anything or representing anyone that has anything to lose. He/She has just created undue liability against whatever entity they own or are employed by and damaged the dignity of a paying student in the process.

                  Can you imagine how much student enthusiasm was wasted by a single incompetent instructor? I'd love to have a student that showed up this enthused and ready to learn. So much was lost in that moment that it could fill libraries.

                  A real learning institution would not hesitate to terminate this person based on that alone; not to mention the inadequacy of integrity that this confirms.

                  Would you want that malicious person teaching you and using your shortcoming moments as meme's? If you answer "yes", "maybe"; or even, "but sometimes", then it's probably time to evaluate your self-worth.

                  Integrity takes a lifetime of hard work to build and only one weak moment to lose. That's a shame for everyone involved.
                  Right on. So applicable to so many scenarios...this place included.
                  Reach back and remember when you first started investing time, effort, and money into the firearms world.
                  None of us were perfect.
                  Few still are.
                  But most of us have enjoyed the ride and have learned from our own experiences.
                  And most of us found supportive folks along the way to help...not demean, preach, or discourage.
                  That kept us interested. We learned at our own pace...and that's okay.

                  Lots of folks chasing folks away these days. I don't get it.

                  Opinions abound....but we all know what opinions are like...
                  Originally posted by mjkeat;
                  The gun you have is better than the gun you don't.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by jagdawg View Post
                    We learned at our own pace...and that's okay.
                    Absolutely.

                    We need to look at this through the eyes of the instructor as well as it's a 2 way street.

                    There are mind tricks and methods from the educators side of the agreement that can make learning more efficient. A good instructor won't beep bop boop their way through class like a robot as if each course is the same as the last.

                    Not only do we learn at our own pace we learn via different methods. Most are multi method learners. A good educator will adjust accordingly. Typically they'll do little things at the beginning of class to help them get a head start on figuring the students out. They'll continue to do so throughout the course as well.

                    Some people respond very well to being singled out, some don't. For some it depends on the situation. I forgot a bcg in the wash tank and my squad leader saw it happen. I went and sat down outside in the company formation area and commenced cleaning my M4. SSgt. Ropel didn't smoke the **** out of my. He made me yell Joe Joe the Duck and I'm all ****ed up repeatedly while circling the formation area while walking in a squared position, hands together, arms straight out at a 45 degree angle pretending I was a tank. At the end of Joe Joe the Duck and I'm all ****ed up I had to yell BOOM! like I was sending art downrange.

                    He could have come over and spoke to me nicely and encouraged me to not forget it again but it wouldn't have had the same impact. That situation affected everything I did for better. I could have been butthurt. It sure embarrassed the **** out of me as I was new to the company. I realized I messed up and he was actually doing me a favor.

                    He also slammed me against the wall once after finding out I was refusing to report my suite mate for keeping the room mast af which could have been bad for me during a health and welfare inspection regardless of my involvement.

                    Sometimes a little tough love is the appropriate response by those leading. From time to time we hold ourselves back for whatever reason and this can be the holy me need to bring us out of that funk.

                    I've seen it work successfully time and time again.

                    I don't believe it was appropriate in this situation.

                    Originally posted by jagdawg View Post
                    ​​​​​​
                    Opinions abound....but we all know what opinions are like...
                    Not equal.
                    Failure is an opportunity to learn.

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                    • #11
                      Of course everyone learns at their own pace

                      There are linear and non linear or abstract thinkers

                      Three of my Tai Chi students are artists they tend to be abstract thinkers, I am a linear thinker, that makes for interesting teaching problems

                      I understand some abstract thought but it is for the most part learned and not innate

                      I was talking with two of them about how colors and shapes evoke certain emotions

                      For instance I detest soft pastels, you want to torture me, put me in a room with a Monet soft pastel

                      Shapes also evoke emotions. images that come to sharp points tend to evoke an alarm emotion, e.g., the bio hazard symbol

                      Being an instructor is not just knowing the material but how to best present it

                      This is why ongoing instruction is important, it takes time for the instructor to find the best way to teach the individual student

                      If you teach the same people for a significant period of time it's interesting to see who learns what the quickest and who falters



                      "I suppose it's tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail...." ~Abraham Maslow~

                      "Skill makes you harder to kill" ~ Unknown

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Being an instructor is not just knowing the material but how to best present it
                        This is the difference between a class and individual instruction.
                        In a class the instructor must teach facts and evaluate each student's perception of the presented material. How well is the student doing is also a performance criterion of the instructor and the materials whether textbooks, videos or lectures.

                        The individual, one on one, has a more personal and often effective format because the instructor adjusts their presentation of the same material for each student.

                        Often an instructor evaluates a student after a lesson and if the student's performance is no correct the instructor may decide either of two things.
                        The student is "stupid and can't learn" or that the instructor presentation lacked something.

                        It is though a different language is used. In a class with beginners and experienced students the instructor must teach to the beginner without boring the experienced student. The bored student doesn't learn as much but the beginner in a class with experienced students may seem to be learning.
                        Instructors often ask, "Any questions?" But the beginner doesn't even know what question to ask.


                        The people think the Constitution protects their rights; But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
                        If your religion says suicide and murder are wrong; Aren't you doing both if you are not prepared to defend your life and the lives of others?
                        I am not a lawyer, but I have personal opinions.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Jim Macklin View Post

                          This is the difference between a class and individual instruction.
                          In a class the instructor must teach facts and evaluate each student's perception of the presented material. How well is the student doing is also a performance criterion of the instructor and the materials whether textbooks, videos or lectures.

                          The individual, one on one, has a more personal and often effective format because the instructor adjusts their presentation of the same material for each student.

                          Often an instructor evaluates a student after a lesson and if the student's performance is no correct the instructor may decide either of two things.
                          The student is "stupid and can't learn" or that the instructor presentation lacked something.

                          It is though a different language is used. In a class with beginners and experienced students the instructor must teach to the beginner without boring the experienced student. The bored student doesn't learn as much but the beginner in a class with experienced students may seem to be learning.
                          Instructors often ask, "Any questions?" But the beginner doesn't even know what question to ask.
                          One on one is often more efficient for the student and easier for the instructor.

                          A good instructor(s) can teach to all levels in one class. If there are 2 instructors, I prefer dual instructors, it's much easier to focus on the individual even in a group setting.

                          "Stupid and can't learn" is lazy and a copout ****-bag instructors use to offload the blame for their incompetence.

                          Criterion - a standard in which things are/can be judged. It's 2019 and about time some of you catch up. Nobody worth a damn gives a crap about some b.s. made up standard some yahoo pulled put of their butt. You time, score or percentage doesn't transfer well as seen over and over again.

                          Failure is an opportunity to learn.

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