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  • Pointless teacher training

    https://thehill.com/homenews/state-w...guns-in-active

    Sheriff does "active shooter" training for grade school teachers. Teachers were provided a face mask and the deputies used air soft guns.
    Teachers were told to get down and then they were shot execution style.

    A total waste of time and some sprilled blood.

    Teachers know an unarmed teacher will die when a killer comes to school.

    Just being a sheriff deputy does not qualify a person to teach.
    The people think the Constitution protects their rights; But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
    If your religion says suicide and murder are wrong; Aren't you doing both if you are not prepared to defend your life and the lives of others?
    I am not a lawyer, but I have personal opinions.

  • #2
    Yeah, I saw that story on the TV news. That was stupid on the part of the trainers. I guess they just couldn't resist humiliating the teachers and inflicting pain. I hope someone gets fired over this, and then prosecuted. Agg. Battery?
    http://youtu.be/ei8OK4WdoW0
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4CuH...e=channel_page
    http://www.stoppingpower.net/comment...tervention.asp
    http://youtu.be/wXwPtP-KDNk
    https://youtu.be/Iy71umadb6k

    Comment


    • #3
      IF anything good would come of it, maybe perhaps the teachers will understand what complying will result in? Maybe possibly change their mindset? Hard to say. Ace2
      Sometimes the term 'Idiot' is a description and not an insult.

      Comment


      • #4
        It's airsoft, does it hurt, yeah, so, the teachers will survive

        That said, I see PTSD and a lawsuit (insert "Jaws" theme music here)

        Those poor traumatized teachers may never be the same again

        "I suppose it's tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail...." ~Abraham Maslow~

        "Skill makes you harder to kill" ~ Unknown

        Comment


        • #5
          Livid doesn't even begin to describe my feelings on this. There's so much to say about this:

          1) Being a law enforcement officer does not qualify you to train individuals. At all. It is very frustrating that the first place organizations (especially schools) go for training is to their local law enforcement department. Some are great. But the vast majority have no ****ing idea what they are doing. It's not their fault, they aren't trained for it. It is however their responsibility to not go running around accepting requests with zero teaching experience.

          2) There is absolutely no reason that participants at this level would ever need to be part of an exercise involving actual projectiles. The risks far out weigh the benefits. Marking rounds, airsoft rounds, etc... Are phenomenal training tools in the right context for groups of people that already possess the necessary skill set to them be tested. They are not for "proving a point" or throwing people to the wolves. You don't learn anything that way and you create more anxiety where there already is some. It's pure ****ing negligence.

          3) There are standard safety procedures for using this kind of equipment. None of which were abided by. Again, because they don't know what the **** they are doing.

          4) There is absolutely no ****ing reason to ever take a normal individual and put them in a position to lose on ****ing purpose. I ran a drill like this for high level instructors, once with blanks, so they realized why we do what we do. NEVER for end users. You NEVER take them and make them do the exact thing you don't want to do. You NEVER put them in a position with no hope. Your job is to teach people. To help people. To support them as they learn how to deal with life and death ****. There's is absolutely no ****ing benefit to this drill and it does nothing but harm their potential of survival.

          There is so much more to say, but **** like this is so aggravating. They are doing harm. They are giving legitimate programs a bad name and fueling the fires that go against training.

          Stop picking the low hanging fruit when it comes to your training. Start taking this **** seriously.

          Please.
          https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...1&id=81575 0611890533


          Safety Protocols matter.

          I used to run NLTA F-o-F Training poorly. Then I learned better and let go of the bravado.

          If you know an instructor who is doing it wrong, donít train with them... and maybe speak to them about it. Iíve found three categories of Instructors who grossly violate safety standards (per RBTA / Manufacturers Recommendations):

          1: those who donít know any better.

          2: those who know better, but take the easy route or buy into the ego game or dismissing safety protocols they donít think are important.

          3: those who probably donít know any better, but follow the bad example set by Group #2 and probably think they arenít doing anything wrong.

          #rbt #rbtic #balancingriskandbenefit
          https://www.facebook.com/groups/icet...6158776053225/

          I honestly don't really see the need for using any sort of airsoft or marking rounds in this exercise. I wasn't there and don't know what all they were doing but it seems this sort of education can be achieved via dry erase of butcher paper and a fairly straightforward and simple exercise utilizing one of the classrooms where they could have gone over good, better and best places to position themselves and the children as well as how to barricade interior doors.

          What is the educational benefit to shooting "students" "execution style" in this scenario? There isn't one.

          Things go to **** when incompetence and egomania collide.
          Failure is an opportunity to learn.

          Comment


          • #6
            I don't know anything about active shooter/killer training so I don't know if shooting the teachers with air soft was appropriate or not

            With that said

            If we look at primary motivators, regardless of whose psychological theory we use we always see greed, lust and fear at or near the top

            I think for this discussion we can eliminate lust and greed, that leaves us with fear

            Even with violence happening all around us, we know without a doubt violence exists but even with that knowledge most people lack the motivation to prepare for such an eventuality

            So how do trainers best motivate people to prepare for a fight

            When I was training fighters we usually had at least a few weeks notice prior to a fight and during that time we could raise the fighters aggression level

            The trainer in a one or two day class doesn't have luxury of time

            The trainer also might be working with people that have no interest in being there or even worse might be opposed to training

            Those people will not respond to logic, charts, graphs or any verbal or visual teaching technique

            As an example, for those that took drivers ed you probably had to watch "Red Asphalt" or something similar, did it slow you down, chances are it didn't

            You watched it and you forgot it, it wasn't you or anyone you knew, there was no connection

            This brings us back to how do we best motivate...........fear

            How do we best teach fear............pain

            Right or wrong, good or bad, those teachers will never forget being made to kneel and being shot with air soft

            "I suppose it's tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail...." ~Abraham Maslow~

            "Skill makes you harder to kill" ~ Unknown

            Comment


            • #7
              There are two kinds of teachers [and staff]: Armed or unarmed.
              Teaching an armed teacher with FoF, how to shoot and kill the armed intruder without getting shot yourself makes sense. Finding cover or at least concealment and shooting while moving and/or the target is moving and awareness of innocents [ the students ] is what must be learned in addition to the laws on use of lethal force.

              Unarmed teachers need to learn how to herd their students to a place of safety, a room with strong walls and doors that will stop all the expected projectiles. Safe rooms need a telephone and a trauma kit and all teachers should learn how to use it to sop bleeding.

              The people think the Constitution protects their rights; But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
              If your religion says suicide and murder are wrong; Aren't you doing both if you are not prepared to defend your life and the lives of others?
              I am not a lawyer, but I have personal opinions.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Jim Macklin View Post
                There are two kinds of teachers [and staff]: Armed or unarmed.
                Teaching an armed teacher with FoF, how to shoot and kill the armed intruder without getting shot yourself makes sense. Finding cover or at least concealment and shooting while moving and/or the target is moving and awareness of innocents [ the students ] is what must be learned in addition to the laws on use of lethal force.

                Unarmed teachers need to learn how to herd their students to a place of safety, a room with strong walls and doors that will stop all the expected projectiles. Safe rooms need a telephone and a trauma kit and all teachers should learn how to use it to sop bleeding.
                I was watching "The Best Defense" TV show last night, it was on this topic

                They covered this point in depth
                "I suppose it's tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail...." ~Abraham Maslow~

                "Skill makes you harder to kill" ~ Unknown

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by ricco View Post

                  I was watching "The Best Defense" TV show last night, it was on this topic

                  They covered this point in depth
                  Maybe I should sue them for stealing my thoughts? I could use the money..
                  The people think the Constitution protects their rights; But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
                  If your religion says suicide and murder are wrong; Aren't you doing both if you are not prepared to defend your life and the lives of others?
                  I am not a lawyer, but I have personal opinions.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ricco View Post

                    I was watching "The Best Defense" TV show last night, it was on this topic

                    They covered this point in depth
                    How many years have people been saying this? I've been saying it for almost 10 years and the guys I heard it from probably 10+ more than that. What I'm getting at, why don't they actually do something about it?

                    I'll offer my time free of charge to discuss the home defense drill. Hell, Pincus, who I heard it from has a free video covering it. At one point, he may still offer it, he would come to schools or something and do free consultation/classes.
                    Failure is an opportunity to learn.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Everything is about money, spending hundreds of thousands or maybe millions of dollars for something that is very unlikely to happen can be a tough sell

                      People love "band aids" and will try to get by as cheaply as possible and that approach works until something bad actually happens

                      The people writing the checks will say that it is a law enforcement problem and not an education problem, teachers and staff are there to educate not to fight BG's

                      Of course very unrealistic but educators that refuse to educate themselves will typically take this approach

                      The person I did my last couple of pistol shootin' classes with, his wife is a teacher and she flatly refuses the idea of arming teachers

                      I have never understood the notion that being weaker than the person that's trying to hurt you as being a good thing but honest I think I'm in the minority in that thinking

                      "I suppose it's tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail...." ~Abraham Maslow~

                      "Skill makes you harder to kill" ~ Unknown

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by ricco View Post
                        Everything is about money, spending hundreds of thousands or maybe millions of dollars for something that is very unlikely to happen can be a tough sell

                        People love "band aids" and will try to get by as cheaply as possible and that approach works until something bad actually happens

                        The people writing the checks will say that it is a law enforcement problem and not an education problem, teachers and staff are there to educate not to fight BG's

                        Of course very unrealistic but educators that refuse to educate themselves will typically take this approach

                        The person I did my last couple of pistol shootin' classes with, his wife is a teacher and she flatly refuses the idea of arming teachers

                        I have never understood the notion that being weaker than the person that's trying to hurt you as being a good thing but honest I think I'm in the minority in that thinking
                        Government doesn't mind spending borrowed and tax payer money. Particularly when their goal is confiscation of privately owned fire arms.

                        Having school shootings makes "the people [sheep] willing to surrender their inalienable rights.
                        The people think the Constitution protects their rights; But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
                        If your religion says suicide and murder are wrong; Aren't you doing both if you are not prepared to defend your life and the lives of others?
                        I am not a lawyer, but I have personal opinions.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by ricco View Post
                          Everything is about money, spending hundreds of thousands or maybe millions of dollars for something that is very unlikely to happen can be a tough sell

                          People love "band aids" and will try to get by as cheaply as possible and that approach works until something bad actually happens

                          The people writing the checks will say that it is a law enforcement problem and not an education problem, teachers and staff are there to educate not to fight BG's

                          Of course very unrealistic but educators that refuse to educate themselves will typically take this approach

                          The person I did my last couple of pistol shootin' classes with, his wife is a teacher and she flatly refuses the idea of arming teachers

                          I have never understood the notion that being weaker than the person that's trying to hurt you as being a good thing but honest I think I'm in the minority in that thinking
                          I don't feel teachers necessarily need to be armed with guns and I damn well don't want them getting training from the USD cops. I know and have worked/taught with one who leads a USD police department in a Wichita suburb and he is clueless..

                          What they need is to know how to barricade their classroom door, stay as outwardly calm as possible for the children, get them off-line from the door and hold that position until the school is safe.

                          In this case education, planning and execution makes them stronger than their attacker.

                          I don't have to big of an issue allowing teachers to carry. I just fear that irresponsible bravado laden fool and their bad decisions around kids.
                          Failure is an opportunity to learn.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Jim Macklin View Post

                            Government doesn't mind spending borrowed and tax payer money. Particularly when their goal is confiscation of privately owned fire arms.
                            On a national level I agree but on local levels money becomes far more of an issue

                            "I suppose it's tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail...." ~Abraham Maslow~

                            "Skill makes you harder to kill" ~ Unknown

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by ricco View Post

                              On a national level I agree but on local levels money becomes far more of an issue
                              USD 259 is Wicita local.

                              The report does not list Superintendent Alicia Thompson, the districtís top administrator, who has her own contract with the district. Thompson will make an additional $14,520 this school year Ė an increase of 6.05 percent. Her base annual salary is $254,520.

                              Read more here: https://www.kansas.com/news/local/ed...#storylink=cpy

                              The Answer: According to the National Center for Education Statistics, there were 98,817 public schools during the 2009-2010 school year. For more information, see other U.S. education facts.

                              Number of U.S. Public Schools - Infoplease

                              https://www.infoplease.com/askeds/nu...public-schools


                              Adding private schools and multi-building schools and a truly effective security would require a million full time, paid staff guards to watch entrances and have a guard in each building on every floor. Not even allowing for classrooms numbering over 1 million.
                              If a guard is to stay alert they need shifts and variations in tasks. Maybe 2 million school guards are really needed. Cost with training, equipment plus a salary of say, $80,000 yearly , or $160,000,000,000.00 or as a rough estimate of $160 BILLION yearly.


                              Law enforcement in the United States - Wikipedia

                              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_enforcement_in_the_United_States
                              Law enforcement operates primarily through governmental police agencies. There are 17,985 U.S. police agencies in the United States which include college campus police, sheriff departments, local police, and federal agencies. ‎Federal law enforcement ∑ ‎FBI Police ∑ ‎Municipal police ∑ ‎Law enforcement agencies
                              Maybe the average for those 18,000 police agencies is 50 officers. or only 900,000 sworn police officers now on duty on highways, neighborhood patrol and investigations.

                              To really guard the US schools the cost of law enforcement would be at least double teh current cost.

                              Teachers and janitors have to be there and they can stay alert because they are not full time watching for "bigfoot." Arms those teachers, janitors, office staff to carry a small conceal weapon such as a Ruger LCP or a GLOCK 43. Some could be trained with a M4 SBR. They could be paid a 5-10% salary bonus.

                              Some teachers might be disqualified but they all have to pass a background check now just to be a teacher. They don't need to be trained in traffic stops or search and capture. Just point defense.
                              When the police actually show up the police can do room to room searches and make arrests.
                              The people think the Constitution protects their rights; But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
                              If your religion says suicide and murder are wrong; Aren't you doing both if you are not prepared to defend your life and the lives of others?
                              I am not a lawyer, but I have personal opinions.

                              Comment

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