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  • #16
    Originally posted by mjkeat View Post

    .............................

    What they need is to know how to barricade their classroom door, stay as outwardly calm as possible for the children, get them off-line from the door and hold that position until the school is safe.

    ................................
    Well whaddaya know, after all this time TMK finally wrote a sentence that makes sense---as far as it goes.

    Agreed, teachers need to barricade the doors, and move the children into a place in the room that is out of the line of fire should the attacker start shooting blindly through the closed door. Good first step; the next step--for those teachers who would choose to be armed--is to take a covered position themselves, away from the children, and be prepared to shoot the attacker if he/she makes it through the door. Not a whole lot of tactical Super Delta Ninja Black Ops Secret Warrior stuff involved; cover the door, if the wrong person comes through it, they get shot. Comparatively easy to train for, rather than expecting them to go hunt down the bad guys. Good, solid doors and good security of the doors would likely negate the need to defend the room, too.

    The idea of having teachers/staff training to go out and hunt down attackers is nothing more than stupid. That's LEO's job, regardless of how well the 'experts' here think the local gendarmes can handle it. Teachers securing in-place, putting the kids under cover, and prepared to 'repel boarders' is much the better plan. Heck, if the teacher(s) don't want to be armed with a firearm, maybe they could follow that one district's plan and put the bucket of rocks in the room. Training with those would be cheap; quiet, too. Ace2

    Sometimes the term 'Idiot' is a description and not an insult.

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    • #17
      Pretty good article from Suarez

      Maybe not directly applicable for schools but the principle holds


      Suarez International

      1 hr ·

      UNTIL LAMBS BECOME LIONS

      "Here is the reality of things. Nobody will ever be able to prevent an event like this with laws. Nor will they be able to maintain a preventative security posture indefinitely unless they are motivated and funded. Moreover, as much as some wish it, evil men will not disappear from the earth."

      https://www.facebook.com/TheSuarezGr...521?__tn__=K-R
      "I suppose it's tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail...." ~Abraham Maslow~

      "Skill makes you harder to kill" ~ Unknown

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Ace View Post

        Well whaddaya know, after all this time TMK finally wrote a sentence that makes sense---as far as it goes.

        Agreed, teachers need to barricade the doors, and move the children into a place in the room that is out of the line of fire should the attacker start shooting blindly through the closed door. Good first step; the next step--for those teachers who would choose to be armed--is to take a covered position themselves, away from the children, and be prepared to shoot the attacker if he/she makes it through the door. Not a whole lot of tactical Super Delta Ninja Black Ops Secret Warrior stuff involved; cover the door, if the wrong person comes through it, they get shot. Comparatively easy to train for, rather than expecting them to go hunt down the bad guys. Good, solid doors and good security of the doors would likely negate the need to defend the room, too.

        The idea of having teachers/staff training to go out and hunt down attackers is nothing more than stupid. That's LEO's job, regardless of how well the 'experts' here think the local gendarmes can handle it. Teachers securing in-place, putting the kids under cover, and prepared to 'repel boarders' is much the better plan. Heck, if the teacher(s) don't want to be armed with a firearm, maybe they could follow that one district's plan and put the bucket of rocks in the room. Training with those would be cheap; quiet, too. Ace2
        Where have you been for the last 30 years?
        Last edited by mjkeat; 03-26-2019, 20:53.
        Failure is an opportunity to learn.

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        • #19
          Don't get big headed just because you made one semi-intelligent comment, you're still an idiot.

          And drat! I just fed the troll again. Mea Culpa; penance being done. Ace2
          Sometimes the term 'Idiot' is a description and not an insult.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by ricco View Post

            On a national level I agree but on local levels money becomes far more of an issue
            USD 259 is Wicita local.

            The report does not list Superintendent Alicia Thompson, the district’s top administrator, who has her own contract with the district. Thompson will make an additional $14,520 this school year – an increase of 6.05 percent. Her base annual salary is $254,520.

            Read more here: https://www.kansas.com/news/local/ed...#storylink=cpy

            The Answer: According to the National Center for Education Statistics, there were 98,817 public schools during the 2009-2010 school year. For more information, see other U.S. education facts.



            Number of U.S. Public Schools - Infoplease


            https://www.infoplease.com/askeds/nu...public-schools


            Adding private schools and multi-building schools and a truly effective security would require a million full time, paid staff guards to watch entrances and have a guard in each building on every floor. Not even allowing for classrooms numbering over 1 million.
            If a guard is to stay alert they need shifts and variations in tasks. Maybe 2 million school guards are really needed. Cost with training, equipment plus a salary of say, $80,000 yearly , or $160,000,000,000.00 or as a rough estimate of $160 BILLION yearly.


            Law enforcement in the United States - Wikipedia


            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_en..._United_States


            Law enforcement operates primarily through governmental police agencies. There are 17,985 U.S. police agencies in the United States which include college campus police, sheriff departments, local police, and federal agencies.‎Federal law enforcement · ‎FBI Police · ‎Municipal police · ‎Law enforcement agencies

            Maybe the average for those 18,000 police agencies is 50 officers. or only 900,000 sworn police officers now on duty on highways, neighborhood patrol and investigations.

            To really guard the US schools the cost of law enforcement would be at least double teh current cost.

            Teachers and janitors have to be there and they can stay alert because they are not full time watching for "bigfoot." Arms those teachers, janitors, office staff to carry a small conceal weapon such as a Ruger LCP or a GLOCK 43. Some could be trained with a M4 SBR. They could be paid a 5-10% salary bonus.

            Some teachers might be disqualified but they all have to pass a background check now just to be a teacher. They don't need to be trained in traffic stops or search and capture. Just point defense.
            When the police actually show up the police can do room to room searches and make arrests.
            The people think the Constitution protects their rights; But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
            If your religion says suicide and murder are wrong; Aren't you doing both if you are not prepared to defend your life and the lives of others?
            I am not a lawyer, but I have personal opinions.

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            • #21
              Fire doors should be standard in all schools because fires happen far more often than gun fire. But a fire door with good hinges and a dead bottom, bottom and middle with two controls inside, one remote electrical and a manual lever.

              Victims should get secured and then wait the 5-20 minutes for the police, sheriff and ATF, FBI to show up. They have robots, remote controlled cameras and for the officers, body armor and extensive physical training and training and practice searching and fighting hand to hand as well as TASERS and real bullets.
              The people think the Constitution protects their rights; But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
              If your religion says suicide and murder are wrong; Aren't you doing both if you are not prepared to defend your life and the lives of others?
              I am not a lawyer, but I have personal opinions.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Ace View Post
                Don't get big headed just because you made one semi-intelligent comment, you're still an idiot.

                And drat! I just fed the troll again. Mea Culpa; penance being done. Ace2
                Envy isn't a good look for you.

                Don't think your tortoise like transformation/adaptation of the concepts I share doesn't go unnoticed. It's discussed via PM.
                Failure is an opportunity to learn.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by ricco View Post
                  Pretty good article from Suarez

                  Maybe not directly applicable for schools but the principle holds


                  Suarez International

                  1 hr ·

                  UNTIL LAMBS BECOME LIONS

                  "Here is the reality of things. Nobody will ever be able to prevent an event like this with laws. Nor will they be able to maintain a preventative security posture indefinitely unless they are motivated and funded. Moreover, as much as some wish it, evil men will not disappear from the earth."

                  https://www.facebook.com/TheSuarezGr...521?__tn__=K-R
                  Bad people aren't going anywhere. Hobbyists will continue to hypothesize about how to get them to do so while ignoring the fact it'll never happen. Instead of hardening themselves for the rare case they're faced with bad people they will sit there in their butthurt because someone called them a hobbyist.
                  Failure is an opportunity to learn.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Jim Macklin View Post
                    Fire doors should be standard in all schools because fires happen far more often than gun fire. But a fire door with good hinges and a dead bottom, bottom and middle with two controls inside, one remote electrical and a manual lever.

                    Victims should get secured and then wait the 5-20 minutes for the police, sheriff and ATF, FBI to show up. They have robots, remote controlled cameras and for the officers, body armor and extensive physical training and training and practice searching and fighting hand to hand as well as TASERS and real bullets.
                    Actually Jim, since schools have been built for fire protection for decades, school fires are actually more rare than school shootings.

                    As far as school shooting preps/ops go, I've already said my piece in another thread--I won't post pipe dreams like Jim continuously does.

                    https://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/pipe-dream.html
                    Last edited by Goodtime Charlie; 03-28-2019, 07:11.
                    http://youtu.be/ei8OK4WdoW0
                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4CuH...e=channel_page
                    http://www.stoppingpower.net/comment...tervention.asp
                    http://youtu.be/wXwPtP-KDNk
                    https://youtu.be/Iy71umadb6k

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Goodtime Charlie View Post

                      Actually Jim, since schools have been built for fire protection for decades, school fires are actually more rare than school shootings.

                      As far as school shooting preps/ops go, I've already said my piece in another thread--I won't post pipe dreams like Jim continuously does.

                      https://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/pipe-dream.html
                      Small fires happen all the time. All the protections builtin reduce the total fires that kill 1,000 students with flame and poisonous smoke.
                      The people think the Constitution protects their rights; But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
                      If your religion says suicide and murder are wrong; Aren't you doing both if you are not prepared to defend your life and the lives of others?
                      I am not a lawyer, but I have personal opinions.

                      Comment

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