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  • Jim Macklin
    started a topic Pointless teacher training

    Pointless teacher training

    https://thehill.com/homenews/state-w...guns-in-active

    Sheriff does "active shooter" training for grade school teachers. Teachers were provided a face mask and the deputies used air soft guns.
    Teachers were told to get down and then they were shot execution style.

    A total waste of time and some sprilled blood.

    Teachers know an unarmed teacher will die when a killer comes to school.

    Just being a sheriff deputy does not qualify a person to teach.

  • Jim Macklin
    replied
    Originally posted by Goodtime Charlie View Post

    Actually Jim, since schools have been built for fire protection for decades, school fires are actually more rare than school shootings.

    As far as school shooting preps/ops go, I've already said my piece in another thread--I won't post pipe dreams like Jim continuously does.

    https://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/pipe-dream.html
    Small fires happen all the time. All the protections builtin reduce the total fires that kill 1,000 students with flame and poisonous smoke.

    Leave a comment:


  • Goodtime Charlie
    replied
    Originally posted by Jim Macklin View Post
    Fire doors should be standard in all schools because fires happen far more often than gun fire. But a fire door with good hinges and a dead bottom, bottom and middle with two controls inside, one remote electrical and a manual lever.

    Victims should get secured and then wait the 5-20 minutes for the police, sheriff and ATF, FBI to show up. They have robots, remote controlled cameras and for the officers, body armor and extensive physical training and training and practice searching and fighting hand to hand as well as TASERS and real bullets.
    Actually Jim, since schools have been built for fire protection for decades, school fires are actually more rare than school shootings.

    As far as school shooting preps/ops go, I've already said my piece in another thread--I won't post pipe dreams like Jim continuously does.

    https://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/pipe-dream.html
    Last edited by Goodtime Charlie; 03-28-2019, 07:11.

    Leave a comment:


  • mjkeat
    replied
    Originally posted by ricco View Post
    Pretty good article from Suarez

    Maybe not directly applicable for schools but the principle holds


    Suarez International

    1 hr ·

    UNTIL LAMBS BECOME LIONS

    "Here is the reality of things. Nobody will ever be able to prevent an event like this with laws. Nor will they be able to maintain a preventative security posture indefinitely unless they are motivated and funded. Moreover, as much as some wish it, evil men will not disappear from the earth."

    https://www.facebook.com/TheSuarezGr...521?__tn__=K-R
    Bad people aren't going anywhere. Hobbyists will continue to hypothesize about how to get them to do so while ignoring the fact it'll never happen. Instead of hardening themselves for the rare case they're faced with bad people they will sit there in their butthurt because someone called them a hobbyist.

    Leave a comment:


  • mjkeat
    replied
    Originally posted by Ace View Post
    Don't get big headed just because you made one semi-intelligent comment, you're still an idiot.

    And drat! I just fed the troll again. Mea Culpa; penance being done. Ace2
    Envy isn't a good look for you.

    Don't think your tortoise like transformation/adaptation of the concepts I share doesn't go unnoticed. It's discussed via PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jim Macklin
    replied
    Fire doors should be standard in all schools because fires happen far more often than gun fire. But a fire door with good hinges and a dead bottom, bottom and middle with two controls inside, one remote electrical and a manual lever.

    Victims should get secured and then wait the 5-20 minutes for the police, sheriff and ATF, FBI to show up. They have robots, remote controlled cameras and for the officers, body armor and extensive physical training and training and practice searching and fighting hand to hand as well as TASERS and real bullets.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jim Macklin
    replied
    Originally posted by ricco View Post

    On a national level I agree but on local levels money becomes far more of an issue
    USD 259 is Wicita local.

    The report does not list Superintendent Alicia Thompson, the district’s top administrator, who has her own contract with the district. Thompson will make an additional $14,520 this school year – an increase of 6.05 percent. Her base annual salary is $254,520.

    Read more here: https://www.kansas.com/news/local/ed...#storylink=cpy

    The Answer: According to the National Center for Education Statistics, there were 98,817 public schools during the 2009-2010 school year. For more information, see other U.S. education facts.



    Number of U.S. Public Schools - Infoplease


    https://www.infoplease.com/askeds/nu...public-schools


    Adding private schools and multi-building schools and a truly effective security would require a million full time, paid staff guards to watch entrances and have a guard in each building on every floor. Not even allowing for classrooms numbering over 1 million.
    If a guard is to stay alert they need shifts and variations in tasks. Maybe 2 million school guards are really needed. Cost with training, equipment plus a salary of say, $80,000 yearly , or $160,000,000,000.00 or as a rough estimate of $160 BILLION yearly.


    Law enforcement in the United States - Wikipedia


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_en..._United_States


    Law enforcement operates primarily through governmental police agencies. There are 17,985 U.S. police agencies in the United States which include college campus police, sheriff departments, local police, and federal agencies.‎Federal law enforcement · ‎FBI Police · ‎Municipal police · ‎Law enforcement agencies

    Maybe the average for those 18,000 police agencies is 50 officers. or only 900,000 sworn police officers now on duty on highways, neighborhood patrol and investigations.

    To really guard the US schools the cost of law enforcement would be at least double teh current cost.

    Teachers and janitors have to be there and they can stay alert because they are not full time watching for "bigfoot." Arms those teachers, janitors, office staff to carry a small conceal weapon such as a Ruger LCP or a GLOCK 43. Some could be trained with a M4 SBR. They could be paid a 5-10% salary bonus.

    Some teachers might be disqualified but they all have to pass a background check now just to be a teacher. They don't need to be trained in traffic stops or search and capture. Just point defense.
    When the police actually show up the police can do room to room searches and make arrests.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ace
    replied
    Don't get big headed just because you made one semi-intelligent comment, you're still an idiot.

    And drat! I just fed the troll again. Mea Culpa; penance being done. Ace2

    Leave a comment:


  • mjkeat
    replied
    Originally posted by Ace View Post

    Well whaddaya know, after all this time TMK finally wrote a sentence that makes sense---as far as it goes.

    Agreed, teachers need to barricade the doors, and move the children into a place in the room that is out of the line of fire should the attacker start shooting blindly through the closed door. Good first step; the next step--for those teachers who would choose to be armed--is to take a covered position themselves, away from the children, and be prepared to shoot the attacker if he/she makes it through the door. Not a whole lot of tactical Super Delta Ninja Black Ops Secret Warrior stuff involved; cover the door, if the wrong person comes through it, they get shot. Comparatively easy to train for, rather than expecting them to go hunt down the bad guys. Good, solid doors and good security of the doors would likely negate the need to defend the room, too.

    The idea of having teachers/staff training to go out and hunt down attackers is nothing more than stupid. That's LEO's job, regardless of how well the 'experts' here think the local gendarmes can handle it. Teachers securing in-place, putting the kids under cover, and prepared to 'repel boarders' is much the better plan. Heck, if the teacher(s) don't want to be armed with a firearm, maybe they could follow that one district's plan and put the bucket of rocks in the room. Training with those would be cheap; quiet, too. Ace2
    Where have you been for the last 30 years?
    Last edited by mjkeat; 03-26-2019, 20:53.

    Leave a comment:


  • ricco
    replied
    Pretty good article from Suarez

    Maybe not directly applicable for schools but the principle holds


    Suarez International

    1 hr ·

    UNTIL LAMBS BECOME LIONS

    "Here is the reality of things. Nobody will ever be able to prevent an event like this with laws. Nor will they be able to maintain a preventative security posture indefinitely unless they are motivated and funded. Moreover, as much as some wish it, evil men will not disappear from the earth."

    https://www.facebook.com/TheSuarezGr...521?__tn__=K-R

    Leave a comment:


  • Ace
    replied
    Originally posted by mjkeat View Post

    .............................

    What they need is to know how to barricade their classroom door, stay as outwardly calm as possible for the children, get them off-line from the door and hold that position until the school is safe.

    ................................
    Well whaddaya know, after all this time TMK finally wrote a sentence that makes sense---as far as it goes.

    Agreed, teachers need to barricade the doors, and move the children into a place in the room that is out of the line of fire should the attacker start shooting blindly through the closed door. Good first step; the next step--for those teachers who would choose to be armed--is to take a covered position themselves, away from the children, and be prepared to shoot the attacker if he/she makes it through the door. Not a whole lot of tactical Super Delta Ninja Black Ops Secret Warrior stuff involved; cover the door, if the wrong person comes through it, they get shot. Comparatively easy to train for, rather than expecting them to go hunt down the bad guys. Good, solid doors and good security of the doors would likely negate the need to defend the room, too.

    The idea of having teachers/staff training to go out and hunt down attackers is nothing more than stupid. That's LEO's job, regardless of how well the 'experts' here think the local gendarmes can handle it. Teachers securing in-place, putting the kids under cover, and prepared to 'repel boarders' is much the better plan. Heck, if the teacher(s) don't want to be armed with a firearm, maybe they could follow that one district's plan and put the bucket of rocks in the room. Training with those would be cheap; quiet, too. Ace2

    Leave a comment:


  • Jim Macklin
    replied
    Originally posted by ricco View Post

    On a national level I agree but on local levels money becomes far more of an issue
    USD 259 is Wicita local.

    The report does not list Superintendent Alicia Thompson, the district’s top administrator, who has her own contract with the district. Thompson will make an additional $14,520 this school year – an increase of 6.05 percent. Her base annual salary is $254,520.

    Read more here: https://www.kansas.com/news/local/ed...#storylink=cpy

    The Answer: According to the National Center for Education Statistics, there were 98,817 public schools during the 2009-2010 school year. For more information, see other U.S. education facts.

    Number of U.S. Public Schools - Infoplease

    https://www.infoplease.com/askeds/nu...public-schools


    Adding private schools and multi-building schools and a truly effective security would require a million full time, paid staff guards to watch entrances and have a guard in each building on every floor. Not even allowing for classrooms numbering over 1 million.
    If a guard is to stay alert they need shifts and variations in tasks. Maybe 2 million school guards are really needed. Cost with training, equipment plus a salary of say, $80,000 yearly , or $160,000,000,000.00 or as a rough estimate of $160 BILLION yearly.


    Law enforcement in the United States - Wikipedia

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_enforcement_in_the_United_States
    Law enforcement operates primarily through governmental police agencies. There are 17,985 U.S. police agencies in the United States which include college campus police, sheriff departments, local police, and federal agencies. ‎Federal law enforcement · ‎FBI Police · ‎Municipal police · ‎Law enforcement agencies
    Maybe the average for those 18,000 police agencies is 50 officers. or only 900,000 sworn police officers now on duty on highways, neighborhood patrol and investigations.

    To really guard the US schools the cost of law enforcement would be at least double teh current cost.

    Teachers and janitors have to be there and they can stay alert because they are not full time watching for "bigfoot." Arms those teachers, janitors, office staff to carry a small conceal weapon such as a Ruger LCP or a GLOCK 43. Some could be trained with a M4 SBR. They could be paid a 5-10% salary bonus.

    Some teachers might be disqualified but they all have to pass a background check now just to be a teacher. They don't need to be trained in traffic stops or search and capture. Just point defense.
    When the police actually show up the police can do room to room searches and make arrests.

    Leave a comment:


  • ricco
    replied
    Originally posted by Jim Macklin View Post

    Government doesn't mind spending borrowed and tax payer money. Particularly when their goal is confiscation of privately owned fire arms.
    On a national level I agree but on local levels money becomes far more of an issue

    Leave a comment:


  • mjkeat
    replied
    Originally posted by ricco View Post
    Everything is about money, spending hundreds of thousands or maybe millions of dollars for something that is very unlikely to happen can be a tough sell

    People love "band aids" and will try to get by as cheaply as possible and that approach works until something bad actually happens

    The people writing the checks will say that it is a law enforcement problem and not an education problem, teachers and staff are there to educate not to fight BG's

    Of course very unrealistic but educators that refuse to educate themselves will typically take this approach

    The person I did my last couple of pistol shootin' classes with, his wife is a teacher and she flatly refuses the idea of arming teachers

    I have never understood the notion that being weaker than the person that's trying to hurt you as being a good thing but honest I think I'm in the minority in that thinking
    I don't feel teachers necessarily need to be armed with guns and I damn well don't want them getting training from the USD cops. I know and have worked/taught with one who leads a USD police department in a Wichita suburb and he is clueless..

    What they need is to know how to barricade their classroom door, stay as outwardly calm as possible for the children, get them off-line from the door and hold that position until the school is safe.

    In this case education, planning and execution makes them stronger than their attacker.

    I don't have to big of an issue allowing teachers to carry. I just fear that irresponsible bravado laden fool and their bad decisions around kids.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jim Macklin
    replied
    Originally posted by ricco View Post
    Everything is about money, spending hundreds of thousands or maybe millions of dollars for something that is very unlikely to happen can be a tough sell

    People love "band aids" and will try to get by as cheaply as possible and that approach works until something bad actually happens

    The people writing the checks will say that it is a law enforcement problem and not an education problem, teachers and staff are there to educate not to fight BG's

    Of course very unrealistic but educators that refuse to educate themselves will typically take this approach

    The person I did my last couple of pistol shootin' classes with, his wife is a teacher and she flatly refuses the idea of arming teachers

    I have never understood the notion that being weaker than the person that's trying to hurt you as being a good thing but honest I think I'm in the minority in that thinking
    Government doesn't mind spending borrowed and tax payer money. Particularly when their goal is confiscation of privately owned fire arms.

    Having school shootings makes "the people [sheep] willing to surrender their inalienable rights.

    Leave a comment:

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