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"Bare Fists as Deadly Force"

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  • "Bare Fists as Deadly Force"

    From Branca

    "I’ve also frequently noted that while bare fists are generally treated as mere non-deadly force, it’s possible for them to qualify as deadly force if there are certain aggravating factors present. Typical among those are circumstances in which the attacker is much larger than the victim, or much stronger, or has an exceptional fighting ability that the victim lacks."

    "The conundrum, of course, is that this attack is not readily identifiable as one of the bare-handed attack exceptions that qualifies as deadly force until after the serious bodily injury has been suffered—after which it may well be too late for the victim to effectively defend himself."


    If you want to see this do it quickly, Branca only leaves these up for a short for non members

    Scroll down a little for the video, it only about 7-8 minutes long

    https://lawofselfdefense.com/video-f...deadly-weapon/
    "I suppose it's tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail...." ~Abraham Maslow~

    "Skill makes you harder to kill" ~ Unknown

  • #2
    FBI Crime report
    https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s...ta-table-4.xls

    More people killed in US by fist and feet than by rifles and shotguns combined.
    The people think the Constitution protects their rights; But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
    If your religion says suicide and murder are wrong; Aren't you doing both if you are not prepared to defend your life and the lives of others?
    I am not a lawyer, but I have personal opinions.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Jim Macklin View Post
      FBI Crime report
      https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s...ta-table-4.xls

      More people killed in US by fist and feet than by rifles and shotguns combined.
      And as Attorney Branca says, that's the conundrum isn't it

      "The conundrum, of course, is that this attack is not readily identifiable as one of the bare-handed attack exceptions that qualifies as deadly force until after the serious bodily injury has been suffered—after which it may well be too late for the victim to effectively defend himself."

      People that believe they don't need some type of empty hand skills or at least pepper spray (and get training and continuing practice) just because they have a gun don't understand the nature of criminal violence or the law, and most certainly don't understand how a criminal attack can change in levels of violence from moment to moment
      "I suppose it's tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail...." ~Abraham Maslow~

      "Skill makes you harder to kill" ~ Unknown

      Comment


      • #4
        One blow to the head with a fist or foot, a chair or ball bat can cause life changing injury or death. Hollywood movies always have the "hero" able to withstand such.

        Professional boxers have skill to duck punches. Refs will stop a fight before death. There are no refs in street brawls.

        What you can do at 22-45 years of age matters little when you're 70 plus.

        Yep pepper spray, TASERS, a posse [or 911 on speed dial] is important. If you have called 911 BEFORE you have to shoot, the response delay puts your need to shoot in a different light. You were in fear when you called and help was slow to arrive. Calling 911 supports your version and mental state of mind. The worst case, by calling 911 the EMTs will get there t render medical aid to save lives even if the SHTF.
        The people think the Constitution protects their rights; But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
        If your religion says suicide and murder are wrong; Aren't you doing both if you are not prepared to defend your life and the lives of others?
        I am not a lawyer, but I have personal opinions.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Jim Macklin View Post
          One blow to the head with a fist or foot, a chair or ball bat can cause life changing injury or death. Hollywood movies always have the "hero" able to withstand such.

          Professional boxers have skill to duck punches. Refs will stop a fight before death. There are no refs in street brawls.

          What you can do at 22-45 years of age matters little when you're 70 plus.

          Yep pepper spray, TASERS, a posse [or 911 on speed dial] is important. If you have called 911 BEFORE you have to shoot, the response delay puts your need to shoot in a different light. You were in fear when you called and help was slow to arrive. Calling 911 supports your version and mental state of mind. The worst case, by calling 911 the EMTs will get there t render medical aid to save lives even if the SHTF.
          Mmmmm, maybe, maybe not. Some agencies will have their EMS stage off-scene until the LEOs have searched and cleared any perceived threats, then EMS will be allowed to go on-scene. That is why it is important to carry your own stop the bleed kit on you--you never know how long a response time there will be--you have to be ready to administer self-aid.

          Now lately I have been seeing more about combat medics responding, and going in with rifle plates and Kevlar helmets, with the LEOs. This due to new mass casualty incident protocol. I think it is a good idea--you have to get someone inside whose job is to stop bleeding, along with the folks whose job it is to neutralize the threat. LEOs can get shot, too, and you need the combat medics in there for them, too. If your local agency isn't training and equipping combat medics for the MCI entry team, you need to push for it--they can save lives.

          http://youtu.be/ei8OK4WdoW0
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4CuH...e=channel_page
          http://www.stoppingpower.net/comment...tervention.asp
          http://youtu.be/wXwPtP-KDNk
          https://youtu.be/Iy71umadb6k

          Comment


          • #6
            It's rarely the punch that kills, most people can't punch that hard, it's the falling and hitting the head on pavement that usually kills

            Typically it is a subdural hematoma from traumatic brain injury that causes death

            It's why boxing rings and cages have padded floors, it's why headgear has a knock out pad on the back

            If you look at Judo throws you will see that some are designed to cause a whipping effect that makes the head strike the ground with more force
            "I suppose it's tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail...." ~Abraham Maslow~

            "Skill makes you harder to kill" ~ Unknown

            Comment


            • #7
              Calling 911 brings police and EMTs. Not calling means you might lie there a day or two

              By all means, carry a trauma kit. Counties training EMTs to go in with body armor does make sense.

              Remember, terrorists do call in 911 to setup and ambush. That's why cops rarely park AT the address given and EMTs wait for an all clear.
              The people think the Constitution protects their rights; But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
              If your religion says suicide and murder are wrong; Aren't you doing both if you are not prepared to defend your life and the lives of others?
              I am not a lawyer, but I have personal opinions.

              Comment

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