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Rules of Engagement - A worthy editorial

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Jim Macklin View Post
    If some bad guy wants to steal my old TV, won't stop, won't surrender, I do have homeowners [renters] insurance that will buy me a better bigger screen HDDTV, so I'd let him go if he would not stop. Force to defend property is lawful, but lethal force may not be used unless your life or another's is in danger... 21-3213 become a 21-3211 action.

    Every case, place, or person will be different and will vary from day to day and hour to hour.
    Yep, I agree. Nothing that I have at home is worth breaking the law over (meaing MY breaking the law) and, I think odds are, when you walk up, or in, brandishing a weapon, there going to do one of two things: Drop what they have and throw their hands up in the air, or drop what they have and go for a weapon.
    "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ingorance and conscientious stupidity" - Martin Luther King, Jr.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Jim Macklin View Post
      Shoot/Don't shoot? If a person is about to be injured, killed or is otherwise in danger, shooting may be the necessary action. But if a TV set or other property is being stolen, consider the chance that you will be sued and or go to jail. Also most people have insurance to cover stolen property.

      Carry and be prepared. Look condfident and be alert. But even when you may have legal authority to shoot, is that TV set or your car worth that much? You have the right to make citizens arrest and to use froce to make the arrest. If the perp escalates and you end up having to shoot to defend your life, you are "justified" but will wonder about whether it might have been better to take his picture and call the cops.

      You can defend lives and dwellings, but be more careful when defending property. Not only is your money and freedom, but your reputation is on the line too. If the first victim of the BTK killer had shot and killed him, the public and media wou;d have cited his "civic recprd" and question why he was killed.
      I completely agree with this train of thought. Property is replaceable. I'm not a cop, I don't carry to pretend to be a cop. I carry to protect life and nothing more.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by wolste99 View Post
        Yep, I agree. Nothing that I have at home is worth breaking the law over (meaning MY breaking the law) and, I think odds are, when you walk up, or in, brandishing a weapon, they're going to do one of two things: Drop what they have and throw their hands up in the air, or drop what they have and go for a weapon.
        Third
        run like Hell away
        The people think the Constitution protects their rights; But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
        If your religion says suicide and murder are wrong; Aren't you doing both if you are not prepared to defend your life and the lives of others?
        I am not a lawyer, but I have personal opinions.

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        • #19
          Well after reading this posting IMHO..I think about 90% of ya'll would get dead if you had to think fast and defend your life. Fact,is bad people act fast and think slow. If you let some asshole take your tv he could come back when your wife or kids are home and take them. I am sure I will get flamed for this one.dry
          marine, warrior of the jarhead clan
          Yes, I really like my PT Cruiser...lol

          What the 2nd Ammentment is all about.
          http://voxvocispublicus.homestead.co...of-Athens.html

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          • #20
            Originally posted by usmc1974 View Post
            Well after reading this posting IMHO..I think about 90% of ya'll would get dead if you had to think fast and defend your life. Fact,is bad people act fast and think slow. If you let some asshole take your tv he could come back when your wife or kids are home and take them. I am sure I will get flamed for this one.dry
            I'm with you on this. BG gets one chance at my domicile. They won't get another.
            ' The Government shouldn't Control any Gun you don't need a Trailer Hitch to Move ' . . . . . Pat Buchanan

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WznSA...eature=related

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            • #21
              If you fire when you don't HAVE to fire, the odds are very high that you will regret it to a very large degree. By that I mean the loss of 10's ,if not hundreds of thousands of $ and perhaps years in prison.

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              • #22
                A CCW instructor that I highly respect told me last weekend that a small percentage of people that pass the CCW class decide never to submit their application after they read more about the laws and how nothing is guaranteed with your financial fate and also your chances of staying out of prison if you use your gun to defend your life in a totally justifiable self defense encounter.

                I submitted my application January 6th and I am still waiting for my license. I have done an extensive amount of reading and studying on what can happen after you use your gun for self defense and I can honestly can tell you that I am wondering if I should carry after my license arrives. I try to always be aware of my surroundings, the situations I am in and the places I go. In my 67 years of life I have never been afraid or concerned for my safety or the safety of my family from the criminals. Maybe I have been lucky.

                I think it is very unfortunate that you can loose all of your financial wealth and/or end in jail or prison for following the law and using your gun to defend your life if your actions are legally justified. Of course you can alway purchase self defense insurance. I am also familiar with the phrases "It's a lot easier to get out of jail than it is to get out of the morgue" and "I would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6" although sometimes talk is cheap.
                Last edited by BillG174; 02-12-2014, 05:33.
                Being Armed Is A Mindset, Not A Physical Condition - Rob Pincus

                GOA, SAF, NRA, Kansas State Rifle Assoc.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by BillG174 View Post
                  A CCW instructor that I highly respect told me last weekend that a small percentage of people that pass the CCW class decide never to submit their application after they read more about the laws and how nothing is guaranteed with your financial fate and also your chances of staying out of prison if you use your gun to defend your life in a totally justifiable self defense encounter.

                  I submitted my application January 6th and I am still waiting for my license. I have done an extensive amount of reading and studying on what can happen after you use your gun for self defense and I can honestly can tell you that I am wondering if I should carry after my license arrives. I try to always be aware of my surroundings, the situations I am in and the places I go. In my 67 years of life I have never been afraid or concerned for my safety or the safety of my family from the criminals. Maybe I have been lucky.

                  I think it is very unfortunate that you can loose all of your financial wealth and/or end in jail or prison for following the law and using your gun to defend your life if your actions are legally justified. Of course you can alway purchase self defense insurance. I am also familiar with the phrases "It's a lot easier to get out of jail than it is to get out of the morgue" and "I would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6" although sometimes talk is cheap.
                  To be honest, I've often wondered the same thing. I have no delusions about being a warrior king and I certainly don't have the money to mount much of a defense should I find myself on trial. I have pared down the scenarios in which I will draw to the point that if I don't there is a 99% chance that I or those I care about will die. Again, to be honest, I'm not even sure about saving my own life, should things go sideways by the time I would get out of prison my life would be over anyway. If I am sued, I don't have enough years left to recover and would probably spend the rest of my days living in government housing.

                  Sometimes I wonder................
                  "I suppose it's tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail...." ~Abraham Maslow~

                  "Skill makes you harder to kill" ~ Unknown

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by ricco View Post
                    To be honest, I've often wondered the same thing. I have no delusions about being a warrior king and I certainly don't have the money to mount much of a defense should I find myself on trial. I have pared down the scenarios in which I will draw to the point that if I don't there is a 99% chance that I or those I care about will die. Again, to be honest, I'm not even sure about saving my own life, should things go sideways by the time I would get out of prison my life would be over anyway. If I am sued, I don't have enough years left to recover and would probably spend the rest of my days living in government housing.

                    Sometimes I wonder................
                    Ricco, thanks for your honest thoughts for which I agree totally. If I carry I would only use my gun as the ultimate last resort to save my life or the life of a loved one. I would try to escape the threat at all cost. With this thought process, I would truly hope that I would never have to actually use my gun if I carry.
                    Being Armed Is A Mindset, Not A Physical Condition - Rob Pincus

                    GOA, SAF, NRA, Kansas State Rifle Assoc.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Sometimes we don't really know what we think we know, so a review is a good thing to do from time to time. Here is an article on the Tueller Drill, the 21 foot rule, which sometimes isn't explained to a trainee in correct manner. It's a good read, and might save you from a gray bar hotel visit.

                      http://www.policeone.com/edged-weapo...-valid-Part-1/
                      http://youtu.be/ei8OK4WdoW0
                      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4CuH...e=channel_page
                      http://www.stoppingpower.net/comment...tervention.asp
                      http://youtu.be/wXwPtP-KDNk
                      https://youtu.be/Iy71umadb6k

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                      • #26
                        Good article, thanks for posting.

                        Just passing this along from my own training experience at Ayoob's LFI 1 class where we all participated in a 21 ft drill.

                        The fastest time to cover 21 feet from a standing start in a 28 person class was 1.22 seconds. That was done by 19 year old male, he was 6'1'' and weighed 165 pounds.

                        There were 3 people tied for slowest at 2.0 seconds. They were all males over 50 years old, their weights were 200,220 and 250, their heights were 6'0", 6'1" and 6'3".

                        The oldest person in class was a female, she was 5'0" feet tall, weighed 122 pounds and 73 years old. She covered 21 feet in 1.91 seconds. In case anyone is wondering, she shot her pistol pretty good too.

                        Some things to consider. For the CCW 21 feet is a marathon, we are likely to be defending ourselves from a much closer distance. Most of us carry concealed, that adds more time to the draw, this especially true for pocket carry or off body carry. Even if we do make the draw and shot there is no guarantee the hit will stop the attack. There is also no guarantee that if we are stabbed we will taken out of the fight.

                        Movement is key.
                        "I suppose it's tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail...." ~Abraham Maslow~

                        "Skill makes you harder to kill" ~ Unknown

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