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  • S&W Consumer Advisory

    So how much would that suck


    Smith & Wesson Corp.

    2 hrs ·
    We’ve recently released a consumer advisory on the M&P380 Shield EZ Manual Thumb Safety Pistol. We have found that in very rare circumstances, ammunition that produces a high level of felt recoil can cause the manual safety to move from the fire to the “safety on” position during firing. Should this occur, you will not be ab
    le to fire the next round unless and until the manual safety is reset to the fire position. Any M&P 380 Shield EZ Manual Thumb Safety pistol produced before April 4, 2018 is eligible for a no-cost upgrade.

    To learn more, please click here. https://www.smith-wesson.com/mp-380-shield-ez-consumer-advi…


    "I suppose it's tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail...." ~Abraham Maslow~

    "Skill makes you harder to kill" ~ Unknown

  • #2
    Makes me wonder if the ammo is the non SAAMI Buffalo Bore plus P.
    Last edited by Not so big Tom; 04-09-2018, 23:18.
    Originally posted by kscardsfan
    Grain of salt hell, I'm taking it with a salt block from the feed store. Thats a big bunch of crap there.
    Originally posted by zap
    Winning a political debate on this forum is like winning the special Olympics....you would need to be a retard to enter it.

    Comment


    • #3
      Or if some people are letting their thumb bump the safety to 'on' under recoil; knew a guy having that problem with a baby pistol, turned out his big hands combined with the tiny gun caused a problem. Slight adjustment in his grip fixed the situation. Don't remember which gun it was, though. Ace2
      Sometimes the term 'Idiot' is a description and not an insult.

      Comment


      • #4
        Found this at S&W website.

        WARNING: READ AND FOLLOW THE WARNINGS IN YOUR OWNER’S MANUAL. NEVER USE “PLUS-P” (+P), “PLUS-P-PLUS” (+P+); OR RELOADED AMMUNITION WITH THE M&P 380 EZ. ALWAYS USE FACTORY MANUFACTURED AMMUNITION PRODUCED TO SAAMI SPECIFICATIONS.



        Originally posted by kscardsfan
        Grain of salt hell, I'm taking it with a salt block from the feed store. Thats a big bunch of crap there.
        Originally posted by zap
        Winning a political debate on this forum is like winning the special Olympics....you would need to be a retard to enter it.

        Comment


        • #5
          Julie Golob did a demo with the pistol when it came out and she was talking about how easy it is to rack the slide
          "I suppose it's tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail...." ~Abraham Maslow~

          "Skill makes you harder to kill" ~ Unknown

          Comment


          • #6
            Or just don't get a defensive handgun with a pointless lever on it. Maybe it's S&Ws way of thinning the heard.
            Failure is an opportunity to learn.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Not so big Tom View Post
              Found this at S&W website.

              WARNING: READ AND FOLLOW THE WARNINGS IN YOUR OWNER’S MANUAL. NEVER USE “PLUS-P” (+P), “PLUS-P-PLUS” (+P+); OR RELOADED AMMUNITION WITH THE M&P 380 EZ. ALWAYS USE FACTORY MANUFACTURED AMMUNITION PRODUCED TO SAAMI SPECIFICATIONS.


              And anyone marking .380 ACP with Plusses and P-s is loading god knows what, because there is no accepted standard for what "+P" is for .380 ACP, and there is no accepted standard for what "+P+" is in ANY cartridge.
              Neither ".380+P" nor ".380+P+" is "produced to SAAMI specifications".
              Time to Drive By again.

              Where's those highlight video links "Hard Act To Follow" mjkeat???????

              Comment


              • #8
                I use to carry B.B. in my .357 snub, but when I saw the we’re making up loading I quit. The BB website claims the manufacturers are afraid of litigation, but S&W marks and sells tons of plus p rated guns.
                Originally posted by kscardsfan
                Grain of salt hell, I'm taking it with a salt block from the feed store. Thats a big bunch of crap there.
                Originally posted by zap
                Winning a political debate on this forum is like winning the special Olympics....you would need to be a retard to enter it.

                Comment


                • #9
                  There ARE +P cartridges Tom, just not very many.

                  +P is higher than standard, but supposed to be less than Proof Load (Metallic Cartridge Proof Load is 30% over standard).

                  .38 S&W Special (the .38 Special we all know, the "S&W" just gets ignored/abbreviated out)

                  9mmParabelum/Luger/NATO/x19mm, et-al

                  .45 Auto

                  .38 Automatic (not to be confused with .380 Automatic/.380acp, not the same)

                  .45 Colt (yes, "Long Colt", the cowboy 6-shooter classic)

                  .257 Roberts (aka .257 Bob).

                  There are no industry accepted +P levels for any other cartridges, not .380acp/.380 Automatic, not .40 Short & Weak, not any others.
                  There are no industry accepted +P+ levels for ANYTHING (even though +P+ 9x19mm is common and commonly 17% overload or so).



                  There is no "+P = 10% overpressure" either, it is very specific to each cartridge.

                  .38 Special is a 17,000psi cartridge,, it's +P round is 18,500PSI, 9% over.

                  9x19mm is a 35,000psi cartridge, it's +P is 38,500psi, 10% over.

                  .45 Auto is a 21,000psi cartridge, it's +P is 23,000psi, 9.5% over.

                  .257 Bob is a 54,000psi cartridge, the +P is 58,000psi, 7.5% over.

                  These above 4 are shootable, even in "non+P guns in limited quantities since the guns are, as designed, to be un-damaged by a Proof Load, but you are not supposed to shoot a regular diet of Proof Loads either.
                  Some old guns existed of questionable strength when .257 Bob was created (1930's), thus the low pressure, any even half-way-recently modern .257 Bob rifle is fully capable of the +P version.


                  The following "+P's are NOT to be shot in the wrong guns.

                  .38 Automatic is a 26,500psi cartridge, it's +P is the .38 Super Automatic cartridge, a 36,500PSI cartridge. 38% higher, so above proof load.

                  The +P loading of the 14kpsi .45 Colt is the Ruger/Contender Only loading of 23,000psi, a 68% overload, Hawks(Red or Black) and 1st gen Vaqueros eat these with abandon, also Thompson Center/Contender rifles, also most of the levergun carbines made today. These are to be gotten nowhere near an old Colt or a reproduction, they'll blow it apart.

                  The old .45-70 rifle has 3 different loading levels to it, but they are NOT SAAMI-standard specifications, these have been worked out by ammunition and load data creators.
                  If you have grandpa's (or great great grandpa's) Rolling Block Buffalo Whacker, it is only a 28,000psi cartridge.
                  Fairly modern lever actions and break actions like the Contender, you can safely push 35,000psi.
                  if you have something new in a truly strong action design, 40,000psi is your limitation.
                  Time to Drive By again.

                  Where's those highlight video links "Hard Act To Follow" mjkeat???????

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    A big factor with "old" case design and manufacture is case head design. The old blackpowder cases were easy to make with 1870 machinery and 1870 alloys.
                    After 1935 case design and manufacture switched to solid head cases and materials and heat treatment annealing changed.

                    If you read Elmer Keith's old loading books [SIXGUN CARTRIDGES and LOADS] you'll see him describe his loads change from 44 Special with 20 grains of DuPont 2400 to 18 grains, citing the reduced powder volume available in solid head cases.

                    Before bullet design improved the Illinois State Police had many combat failures with 9mm in their new S&W 39 pistols. They got a special ISP load from [ as I recall ] Winchester that was a +P+ load with a 124 grain bullet..
                    WWII German 9mm machinegun ammo was +P or +P+ and there were warning to not shoot machinegun ammo in handguns..

                    Auto pistols need recoil impulse to move the slide. A heavier than standard bullet even at reduced pressure will recoil above the spec which hard on te gun, possibly dangerous. Lighter bullets need higher velocity to get enough recoil momentum to cycle the slide.

                    Then different hand sizes and arm strength and weight effect the recoil system.

                    Gun makers do get sued when a gun malfunctions or blows up. So they warn against using non-standard, or handloaded ammo.

                    Some guns, rifle, handgun or shotgun do not support the case head fully or have a weak breeching system and the gun can unlock when fired.
                    Old S&W or other makers tip open guns could stretch the frame and unlock. If the stretch was under the elastic limit of the frame material there might not be any obvious cause for teh failure.
                    I recall a handloader who got some bad info when loading 12 gauge shells for an old double barrel shotgun. The load he'd been using was 17 grains of Blue or Red Dot [don't remember exactly] and 1-1/4 ounces of shot with cardboard wads. He bought some "new" Hodgman ball shotgun powder and it said use 17 grains so he just used the same loading tool setup.
                    The steel frame of his old Steven shotgun was stretching enough that the locking block was losing contact with the locking groove in the barrel breech..
                    I guessed that if he'd been using a plastic piston wad the gun would have blown up.
                    The store owner where I worked gave bad advice and was lucky there was no injury and law suits were not common 50 years ago.
                    The owner and the other employee loaded a few boxes of 12 gauge AA trap loads using AA cases and wads and fired them in their Remington 870s.
                    The cases melted in the chamber and escaping gas bent the follower and split the foreend on both their guns after they each fired several rounds. The bolt, barrel and receiver were not damaged as I recall.
                    The people think the Constitution protects their rights; But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
                    If your religion says suicide and murder are wrong; Aren't you doing both if you are not prepared to defend your life and the lives of others?
                    I am not a lawyer, but I have personal opinions.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      You will play merry hell trying to find a balloon head cartridge case in 2018 outside a collection or museum Jim.
                      In fact, 90% of all cartridges in service today never had a balloon head case, ever.

                      Plastic shotgun shells melting in the chamber, Bulls hit flag right there Jim.
                      They have torn, separated, tubes pulled out of heads, various failures. No overload anywhere with the 3 to 5 millisecond of gunpowder burn time is capable of melting plastic hulls.
                      I have one load that runs 50 grains of gunpowder, more than most of my .308 loads, it won't melt the hull.
                      Time to Drive By again.

                      Where's those highlight video links "Hard Act To Follow" mjkeat???????

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Ya know, now that you mention it, dad let us load on his old MEC so we could shoot clays, I know I had a few phhht loads followed a few shots later by a holy eff load, and never had a paper hull even come out smoldering. How you split the forend on an 870 without a banana barrel and a bloody stump is beyond me.

                        Gonna be fun to sit back and see how Jim makes himself right.
                        Originally posted by kscardsfan
                        Grain of salt hell, I'm taking it with a salt block from the feed store. Thats a big bunch of crap there.
                        Originally posted by zap
                        Winning a political debate on this forum is like winning the special Olympics....you would need to be a retard to enter it.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          How you split the forend on an 870 without a banana barrel and a bloody stump is beyond me.
                          I'm having a mighty hard time envisioning that too Tom.

                          An Auto-5 fore-end can crack, they are damn thin and IF NOT TIGHT, the barrel returning to battery can bash them mercilessly, long known issue, but a very minor issue.

                          I know how you can split an 870 STOCK, but that entails shooting it with the stock up against something like a tree that doesn't move.

                          The fore-end, which isn't even closely mated to the barrel, no ideas at all.

                          People have tested a shotgun barrel until it blew up, chamber explosion, from an overload, not from a barrel obstruction. It happened to be an 870 in particular.
                          Chamber wouldn't even BULGE until 50,000PSI was exceeded.
                          Chamber finally blew @ 55,000psi.
                          12-gauge runs a standard average pressure of 11,500PSI.

                          Funny, I've loaded shotgun shells for 35 years now (or so).

                          Small overloads are easy enough for a fool to do (and ignore), but even a double-charge is well nigh impossible, because it completely screws up the stack height of everything in the hull, and they won't crimp right without changing a wad. Having to change wad column is Clue #1, 2, and 3 all together.

                          Even if a particular gunpowder was 2x as dense, that would allow you a "double-load" from the same volumetric dispenser (not too hard, because the Dot's are "fluffy"), you wouldn't get 5X the pressure under the same weight shot payload. I could waste a lot of time among my manuals supporting this, but it isn't worth the effort.
                          You sure as hell don't get "melted" shotshell hulls.
                          Yea, paper ones won't catch fire either, even though the gas burning inside them is upwards of 4,000 degrees (for a few milliseconds).
                          Time to Drive By again.

                          Where's those highlight video links "Hard Act To Follow" mjkeat???????

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Oldstuffer View Post
                            You will play merry hell trying to find a balloon head cartridge case in 2018 outside a collection or museum Jim.
                            In fact, 90% of all cartridges in service today never had a balloon head case, ever.

                            Plastic shotgun shells melting in the chamber, Bulls hit flag right there Jim.
                            They have torn, separated, tubes pulled out of heads, various failures. No overload anywhere with the 3 to 5 millisecond of gunpowder burn time is capable of melting plastic hulls.
                            I have one load that runs 50 grains of gunpowder, more than most of my .308 loads, it won't melt the hull.
                            I was just pointing out the the younger generation that cartridge loading is not always obvious.

                            Years ago we had a Chinese 100 mm cannon shell that Dad used as an ash tray and pencil tray. It was obviously forged and the primer was obviously just like the balloon head pistol case, just a lot bigger. Wish I knew what happened to that item. From memory it was 100x200 mm. Headstamp was in Chinese. Haven't seen it in close to 60 years.
                            The people think the Constitution protects their rights; But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
                            If your religion says suicide and murder are wrong; Aren't you doing both if you are not prepared to defend your life and the lives of others?
                            I am not a lawyer, but I have personal opinions.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Oldstuffer View Post

                              I'm having a mighty hard time envisioning that too Tom.

                              An Auto-5 fore-end can crack, they are damn thin and IF NOT TIGHT, the barrel returning to battery can bash them mercilessly, long known issue, but a very minor issue.

                              I know how you can split an 870 STOCK, but that entails shooting it with the stock up against something like a tree that doesn't move.

                              The fore-end, which isn't even closely mated to the barrel, no ideas at all.

                              People have tested a shotgun barrel until it blew up, chamber explosion, from an overload, not from a barrel obstruction. It happened to be an 870 in particular.
                              Chamber wouldn't even BULGE until 50,000PSI was exceeded.
                              Chamber finally blew @ 55,000psi.
                              12-gauge runs a standard average pressure of 11,500PSI.

                              Funny, I've loaded shotgun shells for 35 years now (or so).

                              Small overloads are easy enough for a fool to do (and ignore), but even a double-charge is well nigh impossible, because it completely screws up the stack height of everything in the hull, and they won't crimp right without changing a wad. Having to change wad column is Clue #1, 2, and 3 all together.

                              Even if a particular gunpowder was 2x as dense, that would allow you a "double-load" from the same volumetric dispenser (not too hard, because the Dot's are "fluffy"), you wouldn't get 5X the pressure under the same weight shot payload. I could waste a lot of time among my manuals supporting this, but it isn't worth the effort.
                              You sure as hell don't get "melted" shotshell hulls.
                              Yea, paper ones won't catch fire either, even though the gas burning inside them is upwards of 4,000 degrees (for a few milliseconds).
                              They had a long extended foreend. Enough gas came out of the receiver to impact the wood.

                              The people think the Constitution protects their rights; But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
                              If your religion says suicide and murder are wrong; Aren't you doing both if you are not prepared to defend your life and the lives of others?
                              I am not a lawyer, but I have personal opinions.

                              Comment

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