Odd occurrence on Army Base

[DarkswordDX]

I work as a GSA civilian contractor on Fort Riley, selling military equipment. While I'm technically the executive of the company's advertising department, I occasionally get called up to do other things. One of those things is to go on post and open the kiosk at the PX when the regular staff is shorthanded, since I did it before getting promoted. I've never had a problem bringing my CCW on post until today.

I carry a stainless Taurus PT-145 third generation for my usual carry piece, switching between a Clipdraw and a Blackhawk OWB holster depending on clothing. The gun is registered on post with the MP department, and I keep both copies of the registration in my car. One in the packet with my insurance and registration, and the other under the bottom foam pad of the electronic lockbox chained to the passenger's seat frame. The usual procedure is to hand the gate guard my packet with insurance, car, and gun registrations, my DL, and my CCH licenses. Most of them either say "Cool!" or ask me if it's hard to get a CCH... They ask to see the weapon to verify that it's unloaded and the serial number matches the registration. If I'm going on post I'll take the magazine out and lock the slude back, so it's already set when I hand it to the guard. They check it, give it and my papers back to me, and wave me on in. Piece of cake. Until today.

Today there was a senior security officer at the gate. I could tell because he was wearing a different outfit and the other guards kept calling him sir. He was also the only one of the 4 carrying a pistol. I handed my papers and licenses as usual. The guard said "Ooooh, a conceal and carry!" The bigwig took it from him and looked it over. The gate guard asked me if I had my weapon on me, and I nodded. The bigwig then told him to wave me forwrd to the yellow line. And I overheard this:

"He's got a conceal and carry gun license? That means you've got automatic probable cause to search his vehicle for anything. Remember that."

The bigwig then pulled two of the guys over and made me get out of my car. He held me by the gatehouse with his hand on his gun while they rifled through my Explorer with probes. I was told to open any and all compartments, including my lockbox. He checked my gun's SN against the registration slip, then gave me a very hard time about my holster, which had a loaded spare magazine in the onboard pouch (the other mag was in the lockbox). The base rules stipulate that my gun can't be loaded. It doesn't say ANYTHING about magazines or location of ammunition.

Finally they were done searching my car, and the geezer decided he'd hassled me enough. They let me go to work....thirty minutes late.

I like the regular gate guards. My CCH has struck up more than a couple fun conversations with them, and they're decent enough guys if a bit on the slow side. I could do without their bosses though.

[Jim Macklin]

Send that guys name to CNN, they are always looking for Democrats with military experience to talk about terrorism, national security and to bash thye President.

[wichitagreg]

That does seem odd.

The officer is partially correct. Any vehicle is subject to search simply for entering onto the federal installation. You have the choice to not enter if you don't consent to the search. There is probably a big sign that says so at the entrance.

That officer was probably on some kind of power trip, showing off to the regular guards.

If an MP sees ammo, they may decide to search to see if there is an illegal weapon in the vehicle, using the ammo as the "probably cause."

But MP's do not need probable cause to search anyone or anything on the military base.

The constitution and state law does not apply on a military base. Similar protections are in place, but the wording is a little different. You have a right to a lawyer, and to keep silent, but the first, second, and fourth amendments are moot.

You are a guest on the installation, and by entering you agree to certain waivers of your "rights." You can always not enter the base or post.

I'm no lawyer and this is not legal advice.

If you believe you were treated unfairly, contact the Provost Martial, the senior law enforcement office on Post. You can also ask to speak with the MP Sergeant Major, he has the ear of the MP Battalion Commander who can chastise the Lieutenant or Captain who hassled you. I would also suggest you ask the Provost Martial if you have to declare the pistol every time you enter the gate. If it is registered and transported in accordance with Post regulations, you may not have to declare it. At a minimum, the CCW does not apply, has no bearing on your pistol locked in a lock box, so you probably don't need to show that at the gate.

If you are on base frequently, you should be able to get your vehicle registered, and get a window sticker, then you don't have to show all that stuff every time you enter.

Greg

[rgroves]

Was he wearing a name tag? Sounds like Capt. Remf to me.

[Gerard]

Was it a civilian or actually MP? Which gate was is it?

[bgt]

Originally Posted by wichitagreg

The constitution and state law does not apply on a military base. Similar protections are in place, but the wording is a little different. You have a right to a lawyer, and to keep silent, but the first, second, and fourth amendments are moot.

My dad (career Navy) always used to say "We defend liberty, not practice it".

[mech1369dlw]

DarkswordDX, check your mail box.

[DarkswordDX]

Thanks for the info mech.

I didn't get the guy's name, unfortunately. I just wanted to get to work ASAP (we can be fined if our kiosk isn't open on time, according to Dodie the PX tyrannosaurus) so I was trying to be as cooperative as possible.

Personally I think the guy was just trying to be a dick and show off to the security guards. They're all from an outfit called Coastal International. I don't even think they're actual army personnel which is why I never see them with guns.

[jaholder]

I think I'd have a conversation with the MP's about this. While they do have ground rules from the Army on what they can and cannot do what this clown's told his subordinates is that every time you're entering the post your car's getting torn down.

The guy's they hire for these contractor jobs are usually ex-military and will follow every order to the letter no matter how wrong it is.

While they may have the authority to do this singling you out every time is A) Simply wrong and B) a waste of time.

BTW last time I visited Riley all the contract guards were armed.

[wichitagreg]

Originally Posted by jaholder

The guy's they hire for these contractor jobs are usually ex-military and will follow every order to the letter no matter how wrong it is.

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